What are your minimums...

chrisreedrules said:
Shot an ILS to minimums the other day when the METAR was reporting 800 BKN.
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This reminded me of my last trip into MX. We were headed into Saltillo, MX and asked Monterey for the wx and they reported it few at 010. So, we were planning on the visual, but that would soon change as we approached the IAF for the DME Arc, this is what we saw:

So, back to what NewYorkophile said, use your head and plan on the unexpected. We ended up shooting an app to mins. We watched numerous RJs going missed and a couple USA jets. I'm sure they were also told that the wx was few at 010.
 
mshunter said:
Then they shouldn't have their ticket. Because according to the FAA, a newly minted instrument pilot can do all those things, and some will. So it's my job as a CFI to sign them off when they are proficent at it. To me, that's the thing about flying in IMC. If you aren't proficent, stay on the ground, becaue there has been plenty of times here on the west coast where the cielings have been reported at or above minimums, and I have had to use the ALS to legally descend out of mins because I was legal, and safe, but still couldn't even see the runway.
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Dude. You're off base here. If someone is a new instrument pilot, they should set their personal mins a little higher until they get some experience. It's better to refine your limits over time than to discover that you've exceeded them during a critical phase of flight.

Like I said, I'm an experienced pilot, and I wouldn't fly a Cessna to Cat 1 mins. It's not that I can't fly it to mins, but I wouldn't feel comfortable. Are you going to take my ticket away?

There's nothing wrong with someone erring on the side of safety, and setting their personal mins a little higher than published. In fact, I think that makes them a better pilot, not worse.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Dude. You're off base here. If someone is a new instrument pilot, they should set their personal mins a little higher until they get some experience. It's better to refine your limits over time than to discover that you've exceeded them during a critical phase of flight.

Like I said, I'm an experienced pilot, and I wouldn't fly a Cessna to Cat 1 mins. It's not that I can't fly it to mins, but I wouldn't feel comfortable. Are you going to take my ticket away?

There's nothing wrong with someone erring on the side of safety, and setting their personal mins a little higher than published. In fact, I think that makes them a better pilot, not worse.
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I think a lot.of.people are missing my intent. If you are out flying on a day that the weather is at minimums, and end up going missed because of it because your "personal" minimums are higher, you shouldn't have been there in the first place. If the approach allows you to take it to 200 and 1/2, then take of to 200 and 1/2. If the weather is that bad, and you aren't comfortable going down that low, stay on the ground.
 
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mshunter said:
If the approach allows you to take it to 200 and 1/2, then take of to 200 and 1/2. If the weather is that bad, and you aren't comfortable going down that low, stay on the ground.
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That's what personal minimums mean.
 
Has anyone brought up comfort level? I try my best to get in cloud layers to get more time on the instruments, with an out of course. I think it always comes back to proficiency of the pilot, and the responsibility that entails. And I'm not talking about '66HIT' either.
 
I think the CFIs teaching people personal minimums is a good thing. But, the CFIs who have their own WHILE teaching students aren't doing them any favors.

Hopefully if you can, get out there on the low IFR days and do a few approaches to mins and execute the missed approaches. Doing them under the hood with your care bear in the right seat on a VFR day doesn't bring on the real emotion and mindset that hard IFR presents.

Do your job and flight plan alternates appropriately instead of just "legally". A newly instrument rated pilot should respect the weather and minimums, not fear them.




Sent from my iPhone
 
jeflies said:
I think the CFIs teaching people personal minimums is a good thing. But, the CFIs who have their own WHILE teaching students aren't doing them any favors.

Hopefully if you can, get out there on the low IFR days and do a few approaches to mins and execute the missed approaches. Doing them under the hood with your care bear in the right seat on a VFR day doesn't bring on the real emotion and mindset that hard IFR presents.

Do your job and flight plan alternates appropriately instead of just "legally". A newly instrument rated pilot should respect the weather and minimums, not fear them.




Sent from my iPhone
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My instructing minimums are circling minimums, because that's the schools minimums
 
When I was flying GA, I remember going to an airport that was below minimums and shooting the ILS all the way to minimums where I then went missed. Best IFR experience I had.

Sent from LV-426.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Dude. You're off base here. If someone is a new instrument pilot, they should set their personal mins a little higher until they get some experience. It's better to refine your limits over time than to discover that you've exceeded them during a critical phase of flight.
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Personal minimums are good, there is no reason to take on risk you are not comfortable with on a non-necessary flight (which is most of them when not for employment). That said, weather changes, and you never know when you might actually need to fly an approach to minimums. So if you are going to fly IFR and the weather is likely to be IMC, it would be prudent to be comfortable flying to minimums if it should become necessary.
 
It depends, I haven't flown for fun in awhile, but I have a similar thought process with charter operations....

Here's how I look at it, my "go no go" decision is driven by a blend of economics and safety. Not every airport around here has an ILS to 200' and 1/2 mile, and even if it did, I've shot approaches that were at "200' and 1/2 mile" that weren't and had to go missed. Once I get to the airport I'm going to, I'm going down to mins, however, I'll often delay a flight when the field is right at mins because it's a silly waste of money to fly to an airport just to hold, go missed, then go to another airport, if I've waited for hours like that, and customers are antsy, I'll often call up the local TRACON or Center and find out if people have been making it in or not. Let's just sit on the ground until we know we're going to make it in and save the money. This usually means I wait until I see an improving trend, then I head on out.
 
Ian J said:
That's what personal minimums mean.
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I understand that. But you should be prepared to fly all the way down to minimums if you go out flying IFR. What happens when the weather man is wrong. Do you continue to go missed until.you run out of fuel, and options? Call me.dangerous of you want, bit as soon as I got my ticket, I was flying instrument students down to minimums every chance I got in the marine layer we get here in SoCal. I did my instrument ticket, and my CFII in CAVU in AZ and NV.
 
ppragman said:
It depends, I haven't flown for fun in awhile, but I have a similar thought process with charter operations....

Here's how I look at it, my "go no go" decision is driven by a blend of economics and safety. Not every airport around here has an ILS to 200' and 1/2 mile, and even if it did, I've shot approaches that were at "200' and 1/2 mile" that weren't and had to go missed. Once I get to the airport I'm going to, I'm going down to mins, however, I'll often delay a flight when the field is right at mins because it's a silly waste of money to fly to an airport just to hold, go missed, then go to another airport, if I've waited for hours like that, and customers are antsy, I'll often call up the local TRACON or Center and find out if people have been making it in or not. Let's just sit on the ground until we know we're going to make it in and save the money. This usually means I wait until I see an improving trend, then I head on out.
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It's wild to think what it's like where airports are few and far between let alone ILS approaches. I'm used to the east coast where at any given time I'm gliding distance to 30 airports.
 
mshunter said:
I understand that. But you should be prepared to fly all the way down to minimums if you go out flying IFR. What happens when the weather man is wrong. Do you continue to go missed until.you run out of fuel, and options? Call me.dangerous of you want, bit as soon as I got my ticket, I was flying instrument students down to minimums every chance I got in the marine layer we get here in SoCal. I did my instrument ticket, and my CFII in CAVU in AZ and NV.
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You divert, just like you would if you hit the publish minimums and couldn't see anything.
 
I should clarify... My original post was meant to be a little more like this: if you are looking at the weather before you go flying what are your minimums? Mine are usually around 500ft if I have to go some place and the airport has an operating ILS or 700ft if it has an NPA. If I'm already flying I would of course shoot the approach to minimums if need be. It doesn't make me uncomfortable in the least bit. I've been shooting approaches to minimums is old beat up 172s with no GPS for a while now.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Personal minimums are good, there is no reason to take on risk you are not comfortable with on a non-necessary flight (which is most of them when not for employment). That said, weather changes, and you never know when you might actually need to fly an approach to minimums. So if you are going to fly IFR and the weather is likely to be IMC, it would be prudent to be comfortable flying to minimums if it should become necessary.
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Absolutely it can change. I'm capable and willing to fly down to published mins if pressed, but I wouldn't depart in a Cessna if it was forecasted to be at mins all day.
 
mshunter said:
I understand that. But you should be prepared to fly all the way down to minimums if you go out flying IFR. What happens when the weather man is wrong. Do you continue to go missed until.you run out of fuel, and options? Call me.dangerous of you want, bit as soon as I got my ticket, I was flying instrument students down to minimums every chance I got in the marine layer we get here in SoCal. I did my instrument ticket, and my CFII in CAVU in AZ and NV.
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I could be wrong, but I never understood personal minimums to mean you abort an otherwise legal approach because the weather was forecast lower than expected. I thought personal minimums were used as go/no-go decision making criteria during pre-mission planning.
 
I understand personal mins for private pilots but the second you step into a pilot job your mins go to published. The last thing my boss wants to hear is that I am unwilling to launch because it is 300 OVC.

If you are teaching personal mins to your students you should stress that the only mins at a professional pilot job (under normal conditions) is what is published.
 
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