WEATHER DIDNT LOOK TOO BAD TO ME....

SEAN

New Member
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 953DL Make/Model: MD88 Description: MD-81/82/83/87/88
Date: 01/02/2004 Time: 2340

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: None

LOCATION
City: PENSACOLA State: FL Country: US

DESCRIPTION
DELTA AIRLINES FLIGHT DAL837, N953DL, AN MD88 AIRCRAFT, RAN OFF THE END OF
RUNWAY 17 ON LANDING, 140 PASSENGERS AND 5 CREW WERE DEPLANED VIA STAIRS,
NO INJURIES REPORTED, OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES ARE UNKNOWN, PENSACOLA, FL

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 5 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 140 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: 022341Z 14005KT 8SM FEW014 SCT044 OVC055 18/18 A3020



OTHER DATA
Activity: Business Phase: Landing Operation: Air Carrier

Departed: ATLANTA, GA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: PENSACOLA, FL Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing: U
Last Radio Cont: LOCAL CONTROL
Last Clearance: CLRD TO LAND

FAA FSDO: BIRMINGHAM, AL (SO09) Entry date: 01/05/2004
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
There are just, hmm, perhaps 100 other things besides weather that'll potentially run you off the runway.
 

Tired

New Member
What is your point? Aircraft, especially smaller jets will run off the end of runways every so often...
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
PNS is actually a pretty tricky airport to fly into and the MD-88 is NOT a forgiving aircraft in most circumstances.

PNS has a pretty short runway and I think only one precision approach. Then there's a dip and a big bump in the rumway so if you're not aware of it, you can float down the runway pretty far.

I remember flying in there once, I floated pretty good, decided "Aww, screw it", cut the power and banged it on the ground and got it stopped.
 

Tired

New Member
Does anyone know if the ILS was in service...that runway has an ILS but no PAPI or VASI...could be a factor.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
(without reference to the above incident:)

I have no idea.

Sometimes you have to poke and prod airport operators to turn on the ILS. Not that you actually NEED the ILS to do a visual, but some of the visual cues that you'd use during a visual look a little wacky on short or narrow runways so the ILS is mighty handy to cross check VASI/PAPI or plain 'seat o' the pants' skills.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
Reference to what Doug said, we always back up a visual with an ILS if it's available. It's especially helpful when there isn't a VASI or PAPI for that particular runway. Straight up visuals without any kind of glideslope guidance can be tricky in the Saab. You are trying to get the plane to land exactly 1000 feet down the runway as close as possible to Vref without floating, pounding it on to scare the pax, etc. It helps to have backups.
 

Tired

New Member
Atleast you guys have reverse...nothing I dislike more then flying into a short wet/icy runway at night, no glideslope, ref speed is 140, and having to stop with only wheel brakes.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
Our reversers are good, however I try to keep from using them on contaminated runways pretty often. Usually the backwash from the props reduces visibility greatly, and if we have a bottom governor failure on one side, it causes the props to be reversing at VERY different RPMs, which creates a hairy situation on the driest runways, let alone the wet ones. Ground idle works great!
 

SEAN

New Member
Ok, first off....sorry for the caps.

Secondly, I wasnt saying anything in particular about the weather being a sole factor....just providing the accident report.

On another note....what was that bump you were talking about doug? a bump on the runway that would cause you to go airborne again? seems pretty dangerous...there is a small airport up here that has that, and will cause a cessna to hop off the ground before shes ready.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Chicaga- When you're on a snowy ramp getting marshalled in, use a little beta and see how much the marshaller likes it!
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
On another note....what was that bump you were talking about doug? a bump on the runway that would cause you to go airborne again?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bump on the runway... I can't remember if it's concave or convex, but it's a prominent feature of the runway. I'm not sure if it's dangerous per se, but it is unusual and a little tricky on such a short runway.

Anyway, this is where local politics comes into play. If the city tries to expand the runway, you're going to have every local yahoo protesting because they'd have the ability to land larger aircraft at the airport, may enable planes to fly lower over their homes, etc.

But then if you're to smoothen out the runway, the city is going to lose massive revenue because 17/35 is really the only usable runway for air carrier operations.

Definetely a catch-22.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
[ QUOTE ]
Chicaga- When you're on a snowy ramp getting marshalled in, use a little beta and see how much the marshaller likes it!


[/ QUOTE ]

I know it's horrible, but I always laugh when the marshaller does a 180 and hides when this mass of snow powder heads their way when we're stopping!
 
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