We all talk about food stamp wages, but this is a good read

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They had four of these at Fudd Ruckers on the B terminal in DTW.
This is just a place holder until all of this is done on my phone before I even get to store front and frankly I can't wait.
 
US aviation would be a much different place if pilots could actually go on strike. The WORST thing to happen to pilot labor is the RLA and the airlines lobby pretty hard to keep it place.
 
This man wrote a book about unjust wages in aviation. Get'em!
Let loooooose the hounds!
Discourage this man and his productivity.
hey man, I just here to whine.

I don't think anyone is disputing the validity of the man's point...or disparaging his efforts to make that point known.

The reality is that the public just doesn't give a flip about any of it. There's rather a lot of empirical evidence and history indicating just that.

It would appear the solution lies somewhere other than with the public which makes impassioned appeals to them a bit of a dead end street.
 
I don't think anyone is disputing the validity of the man's point...or disparaging his efforts to make that point known.

The reality is that the public just doesn't give a flip about any of it. There's rather a lot of empirical evidence and history indicating just that.

It would appear the solution lies somewhere other than with the public which makes impassioned appeals to them a bit of a dead end street.

The public does seem to care. The book is currently up to number 2 in commercial aviation book sales on Amazon.

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Technically, FL's former fleet is about to single-handily eradicate the poor regional pilot on food stamps problem altogether. Of course you'll start to see more CRJ-200 typed HR generalists in your office, but at least they'll be making in excess of $30k a year.

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If your Physician put in six to eight years of medical education, training and internship in order to provide you with the best, up to date medical care, would you expect him or her to be paid less than that of a fast food worker with much less training?

I'm not sure if this is a passage from the book or if it's just the author's description...but are there really that many pilots making sub-fast food wages 6-8 years after starting? I guess I would assume that if someone was still on first year regional pay that far into their career, it would have resulted from either their own choices or bad luck (or incompetence). Fast-food wages (and I think that's a bit an exaggeration--I'd bet that most regionals are above that for 1st-yr pay; at least the two I worked for were) only lasts for a year for all but the worst regionals anyway.

I know everyone loves to talk about pilots on food stamps on the internet, but do you have any personal accounts of pilots being on government assistance in your book? I ask because I never encountered a single pilot on food stamps. It seems to me that there's a fair bit of hyperbole in the title and the description. If the book itself is a little less dramatic and takes a more nuanced look at which pilots are paid below a living wage and how that compares to other careers with similar experience and education requirements (and doctors are *not* a valid comparison to all pilot positions, as much as we think they should be), I'd be interested in reading it.

The public does seem to care. The book is currently up to number 2 in commercial aviation book sales on Amazon.

You're ahead of Patrick Smith...that's impressive!
 
The public does seem to care. The book is currently up to number 2 in commercial aviation book sales on Amazon.

That's good. Glad to see you make some money. However, do you know the book is being bought by the non-pilot "public" ? What has that non-pilot public done in response to the plight of low-paid regional pilots ? What are they expected to do ? I've yet to hear anyone detail what they expect from the public.

I've watched this issue for rather a long time and have yet to see the public do anything but utter the occasional "Tsk, Tsk".

Airlines respond to one thing and only one thing: economic pressure. I guess the question becomes where that pressure originates.

So far, I don't see that coming from the "public".

 
zmiller4 said:
I'm not sure if this is a passage from the book or if it's just the author's description...but are there really that many pilots making sub-fast food wages 6-8 years after starting? I guess I would assume that if someone was still on first year regional pay that far into their career, it would have resulted from either their own choices or bad luck (or incompetence). Fast-food wages (and I think that's a bit an exaggeration--I'd bet that most regionals are above that for 1st-yr pay; at least the two I worked for were) only lasts for a year for all but the worst regionals anyway. I know everyone loves to talk about pilots on food stamps on the internet, but do you have any personal accounts of pilots being on government assistance in your book? I ask because I never encountered a single pilot on food stamps. It seems to me that there's a fair bit of hyperbole in the title and the description. If the book itself is a little less dramatic and takes a more nuanced look at which pilots are paid below a living wage and how that compares to other careers with similar experience and education requirements (and doctors are *not* a valid comparison to all pilot positions, as much as we think they should be), I'd be interested in reading it. You're ahead of Patrick Smith...that's impressive!
I know a few XJT pilots in food stamps. They are about to hit 2nd year pay but the one with 2 kids I think they will still be eligible.
 
In CA I would've needed to make about 19,000 a year to qualify as a single dude for food stamps. I didn't qualify. I made over 30,000 first year.
 
Well then, here's a floater in the punch bowl for you!!!

The following message is the opinion of the poster and comes from an outside vantage point. This does not necessarily (and most likely does not) reflect the opinions or feelings of the originator of this forum, other site members, or any other human being for that matter. Read at your own risk……..

I think it's great that this book was written; maybe it has been long overdue. Congratulations on its publication, sale, and movement up the sales chart. I wish I had the patience to write a book. That having been stated, the book is nothing more than propaganda and should be read, accepted, and discussed with this in mind.

As far as the pilot pay itself, this has been a topic of discussion since Orville and Wilbur were standing on a wind driven hill in North Carolina. History tells us that the Wright brothers tossed a coin to determine who would “get” to fly their airplane first. My heart-buzzing thought is that Orville wanted a set amount of money in order to take the seat and Wilbur was willing to do it for less! Fast forward 110+ years and here we are today……

Seriously, when I drive to McWendy’s King up down the street, I could care less how much per hour the person at the drive-thru window makes. In addition, I really don’t care how much the fry guy makes! I want my fries and I want them and the service to be just the way it was the last time I visited the building. I have no malice towards the CEO of McWendy’s King, nor any towards the stores franchise owners, building owners, managers, nor employees because of low pay or QOL. You won’t see me or anyone else for that matter going to Congress or CNN about the low pay at a McWendy’s King restaurant!

Especially if, at the end of the year, the CEO can boast over 999,999,999 served. Even if the McWendy’s King’s owners have to explain some misdirected apples pies, incorrect drinks, and having to kick disorderly people out of the stores, they still drive on because the employees keep showing up for work and because the people keep coming back!

Now, if the employees are willing to subject themselves to the low pay, poor QOL, and long hours, etc it’s clearly their business. Likewise, if the pilots AND their union accept the conditions under which they work, then, again, it’s their business; the public, by and large, don’t really care. It is a sad…..but true truth. Employees = Customers

I think the pilots and the union are culpable for the conditions that exist today. The pilots are to blame for lowering their personal and professional standards. By continuing to apply and work for the pay and conditions, you are endorsing the same! Stop being the butt in the saddle and hold out for a position that allows you to ride the trail with pride and with your back straight.

As an employee (pilot), the reason you accept the fry guy job is because you know the drive-thru guy works 40 hours a MONTH, making $1,000/hr. You’re willing to stand at the fry station for a full 40 hours a WEEK making $4/hr. Somewhere in your mind you know that if you stand there long enough, someone will die and you’ll get to move to the grill, then the register, and then, after 15 years, you’ll reach the pinnacle of McWendy’s King…..the coveted DRIVE-THRU! And as far as I’m concerned, that’s great if that is what you choose to do. If you and your family can handle the pay and QOL, who am I to step in and fight Congress on your behalf?

The union, on the other hand, should be ashamed for forcing membership and then allowing these conditions to exist in the first place. I think that the union representatives go into these negotiations with the following mindset: “When I was a lowly pilot, I didn’t make $1,000 a month, I made $1,000 a year. I didn’t get a nice furnished crash pad, I jammed a sleeping bag into a backpack and I hauled it with me to the base on my back. I didn’t get jump seat privileges, I walked to work! Even when my base was clean across the country, I walked or hitchhiked; if I thought I might be late, I ran! These young kids today want everything handed to them and they don’t want to work for anything. And if that’s not bad enough, they don’t respect the fact that I should be bronzed!”

Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t care for unions because of what I have been witness to and subjected to personally. They are by in large ineffective except when it comes to the preservation of and sustainment of their own existence. However, in the airline industry the union has something that they don’t seem to handle well and they certainly don’t fully understand. They have something that the pilots don’t; they have a seat at the table! Times have changed, but the airlines won’t change until they are forced to do so. The economic pressure that has been mentioned can’t, but more importantly WON’T, come from the public.

The union has to stop engaging in cost-neutral negotiations, stop getting all tied up in the small issues and take a step back……look at the big picture. Not from a self-preservation viewpoint but rather from that of an industry.

Until that time…..”Ding, fries are done! Ding, fries are done”……….1,000,000,000 served! And so it goes……….
 
US aviation would be a much different place if pilots could actually go on strike. The WORST thing to happen to pilot labor is the RLA and the airlines lobby pretty hard to keep it place.

Sigh. No.

Go read about labor units under the NLRA and you will discover why the RLA, although flawed, is actually not the worst thing to happen to pilots.
 
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