popaviator
Well-Known Member
I'm curious what happens, or what have people heard about pilots who wash out of initial 121 training. Is the black mark on your record really that bad?
Washing out of 121 initial training?
- Thread starter popaviator
- Start date
USMC-SSGT
Well-Known Member
In today's market, unfortunately yes.
No company will hire anyone anytime soon with a recent 121 training failure. Training is very expensive to an airline and it is a risk they would not likely want to take if someone had already failed prior.
There are far too many qualified applicants with no failures at this time. In the past it was just an issue but not necessarily a deal breaker. It will come around (sometime) and it would just need to be explained thoroughly and not a total deal breaker.
No company will hire anyone anytime soon with a recent 121 training failure. Training is very expensive to an airline and it is a risk they would not likely want to take if someone had already failed prior.
There are far too many qualified applicants with no failures at this time. In the past it was just an issue but not necessarily a deal breaker. It will come around (sometime) and it would just need to be explained thoroughly and not a total deal breaker.
It can happen, but over the last 20 years airlines with a laser beam focus on costs have streamlined and simplified training significantly. You still have to put in effort but for the most part they want you to pass and within reason will make it happen. It costs money for training. It costs money to wash someone out. Airlines now operate in the least cost mode.
The old school hammer instructors of yesterday have been replaced by Santa in the name of cost savings. Don't do anything to require extra training and the issue will never come up. If you expect to be spoon fed and require additional training you can eventually tip the money scale against remaining employed.
It's all about the Benjamins.
The old school hammer instructors of yesterday have been replaced by Santa in the name of cost savings. Don't do anything to require extra training and the issue will never come up. If you expect to be spoon fed and require additional training you can eventually tip the money scale against remaining employed.
It's all about the Benjamins.
LineCheck
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately it happens, but i've found the underlying reason is usually an unwillingness on the part of the student. The training departments do a great job at moving you through the process, but YOU have to do your part for it to work. Paying attention in class, asking questions if you dont understand something, studying in the evenings (preferably in groups).
Like someone else said, especially right now a 121 washout would probably hinder you from getting picked up. You would probably end up having to do something else to prove that you made the necessary adjustments to not washout again on their dime.
Like someone else said, especially right now a 121 washout would probably hinder you from getting picked up. You would probably end up having to do something else to prove that you made the necessary adjustments to not washout again on their dime.
C150J
Well-Known Member
I agree with most of your post, but I can't say this is true at my shop. We are losing plenty in initial, and most have 121 experience.
phoenix 23684
Well-Known Member
If I were management, I would not hire any 121 failures due to the Buffalo crash and the attention that the media placed on the numerous failures the captain had on his record.
Like others have said, airlines are running a very lean operation, and with the bast pool of qualified candidates it makes little sense to gamble on someone who has a negative mark on their record. Perhaps if when airlines resume hiring like they did in 2006-2007 will things change somewhat.
Like others have said, airlines are running a very lean operation, and with the bast pool of qualified candidates it makes little sense to gamble on someone who has a negative mark on their record. Perhaps if when airlines resume hiring like they did in 2006-2007 will things change somewhat.
C150J
Well-Known Member
The media deserves no credit in their coverage of airline operations, or introspection as to why CJC3407 occurred. Cow-towing to the media's conclusions instead of fixing a broken hiring, training, and testing paradigm only holds us in draconian times. If we were to follow the USA Today's advice, we would hire military-only aviators with glider experience.
That being said, an inconsistent training record with no pattern of rehabilitation does "flag" an applicant. However, to look past a kid who failed 121 initial ten years ago and has multiple types, thousands of hours, and a failure-free history since is unfortunate.
