Was reading today...

///AMG

Well-Known Member
an article in Combat Aircraft about T-38C training @ Randolph AFB. Sounds like you guys on the blue side are doing some pretty interesting stuff in the tracom compared to what we do. Speaking particularly to the IFF courses (be it for fighter dudes, or multirole folks). We do basic low level, weapons (Mk-76 delivery), tacform, and ACM in T-45 advanced, but it sounds like our AF friends are getting quite a bit more valuable experience before they pin wings. Anyone care to ellaborate on how they think this program is benefitting folks? Seems like it would be a pretty good leg up coming into the FRS/FTU. We do a couple 2v1 flights, but overall everything is very scripted and straightforward. I think perhaps we too could benefit from a little bit more dynamic complex training while still only burning VT level gas and mx man hours, even if our guys are only strike-fighter types and not purely focused on traditional air-to-air stuff. Thoughts?
 
When I went thru at RND, it was still -38As, we actually dropped BDU-33s, there was no HUD since it was all manual pipper. Was good times. Not as good as back in the days at HMN where they had the SUU-20s with both BDUs and 2.75 rockets, and depending on the program you were in....the minigun to shoot, but it was alright.
 
We do a couple 2v1 flights, but overall everything is very scripted and straightforward. I think perhaps we too could benefit from a little bit more dynamic complex training while still only burning VT level gas and mx man hours, even if our guys are only strike-fighter types and not purely focused on traditional air-to-air stuff. Thoughts?

Everything at IFF is very scripted, too.

Remember, it is called "Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals", so although there are many different subjects and disciplines taught in the course, its real purpose is to simply expose the student to all of those concepts.

The reality is that T-38 performance, avionics, and weaponry limits the practical application of any sort of "tactic" in IFF. We basically teach 1960s F-5 tactics, shooting rear-aspect heaters and gun.

The REAL learning, however, is in taking a student who is only used to performing basic administrative tasks in a non-demanding environment, and exposing them to a fast-paced, high-G environment where their brain and body are working overtime....and ensure that they can still perform those basic administrative tasks.

I call IFF "Admin Weapons School". Students think the objective is to learn BFM, ACM, and bombing. It really teaches how to perform all those classic "wingman" tasks (in position, on freq, ready to execute) while being task saturated with other "stuff" (and the "stuff" happens to be BFM and bombing).

All of that being said, from an instructor point of view, every single sortie is pretty closely scripted. There is an exact way to fly every single BFM engagement correctly -- there are no bonus points for going off script and using ingenuity to find a better way to kill the bandit. It's just that students are too task saturated by even the scripted stuff to have the fact that it is scripted matter.

IFF has traditionally been the AF's "washout" course for the fighter pipeline. Where SUPT gets measured by it's ability to produce "X" number of pilots in a particular year, IFF has no reward for productivity -- they yardstick themselves by how their graduates perform in the FTUs. The "high bar" in IFF is defensive BFM, and more specifically, the 3K defensive BFM engagement.
 
Interesting. Perhaps it was just in the way that the guy in the article worded it then, that made it seem more tactical. We pretty much do the same stuff in ACM (offensive/defensive 1v1, 6k sets, snapshots, rollers, flats, offensive 2v1), and also get a lot of exposure to handling tac admin and comms while flying our 2 plane low levels, tac forms, etc. Makes sense about the limitations of the aircraft, I just had figured that the -38 was a bit more capable than ours.....at least outside the CV environment :)
 
Interesting. Perhaps it was just in the way that the guy in the article worded it then, that made it seem more tactical. We pretty much do the same stuff in ACM (offensive/defensive 1v1, 6k sets, snapshots, rollers, flats, offensive 2v1), and also get a lot of exposure to handling tac admin and comms while flying our 2 plane low levels, tac forms, etc. Makes sense about the limitations of the aircraft, I just had figured that the -38 was a bit more capable than ours.....at least outside the CV environment :)

totally unrelated but i saw a ton of you guys at MEI yesterday...

i'll be making my last flight in the T-1 tomorrow and we are going to MEI :(
 
totally unrelated but i saw a ton of you guys at MEI yesterday...

i'll be making my last flight in the T-1 tomorrow and we are going to MEI :(

Well at least you can get free chili dogs and ice cream afterwards (or use the new starbucks machine). Yeah we do a lot of out and in's to key, and often stage there on the weekends as well when NMM is shut down. A bunch of folks in the class ahead of me are trying to get done with ACM so they can wing in a week, so probably most of those guys were there (ACM typically is an O/I).
 
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