Walmart Pilots get Massive Pay Raise

GypsyPilot said:
Most 91 jobs are crappy. There are a few that are awesome, but for the most part they have lots of problems. I did it for several years, I have lots of friends that do it, and overall I've had enough exposure to corporate to have a better than average feel for it. I'm very comfortable with my take on it.
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Everyone I know that flies for a 91 department are very happy.

This is like saying every regional job sucks, cause I know a few people that don't like it. We know how you hate that.....
 
Groundpounder said:
Everyone I know that flies for a 91 department are very happy.

This is like saying every regional job sucks, cause I know a few people that don't like it. We know how you hate that.....
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Like @ATN_Pilot said, they do suck. Some regionals suck less than others, but the goal at every regional should be to get out as quickly as possible.

But when it comes to Legacy 121 and part 91 gigs? Your odds of having the best combination of schedule, time off, pay, and overall QOL are FAR better at a major airline. I'm baffled that this is considered even debatable?
 
GypsyPilot said:
Like @ATN_Pilot said, they do suck. Some regionals suck less than others, but the goal at every regional should be to get out as quickly as possible.

But when it comes to Legacy 121 and part 91 gigs? Your odds of having the best combination of schedule, time off, pay, and overall QOL are FAR better at a major airline. I'm baffled that this is considered even debatable?
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It's considered debatable because for the last five years I've flown less than 300 hours a year, and averaged over 200 days off a year for each of those years. That's days at home. Not sitting in a hotel for a few nights. I make over six figures to do it. With full benefits/401k matching etc. I also know my schedule a month or more in advance. We're not all out there working for horrible companies. If we were, regionals wouldn't have a problem hiring. Does part 91 have some real weirdos running some flight departments? Of course. We all have our 2% that we don't want to fly with. Just like every airline has captains and fo's that people put on lists and actively bid around. The problem is when one of these guys end up at a small flight department you can't bid around them, so they make what should be a great job into a horrible one.

Will I have the opportunity to make what a legacy captain can make? Probably not, but I also won't work as hard, be gone as much or have to commute. I'm more of quality of life kind of person. Having time off with my family is way more important than chasing an extra 50, 60 even a 100 grand. I've got enough to buy a house, hangar (in SoCal) and get my Stinson going again. So I'm happy. I hope you're nothing but happy with your career choices as well. That's what's great about aviation, we can all find the job that suits us.
 
PositionAndHold said:
It's considered debatable because for the last five years I've flown less than 300 hours a year, and averaged over 200 days off a year for each of those years. That's days at home. Not sitting in a hotel for a few nights. I make over six figures to do it. With full benefits/401k matching etc. I also know my schedule a month or more in advance. We're not all out there working for horrible companies. If we were, regionals wouldn't have a problem hiring. Does part 91 have some real weirdos running some flight departments? Of course. We all have our 2% that we don't want to fly with. Just like every airline has captains and fo's that people put on lists and actively bid around. The problem is when one of these guys end up at a small flight department you can't bid around them, so they make what should be a great job into a horrible one.

Will I have the opportunity to make what a legacy captain can make? Probably not, but I also won't work as hard, be gone as much or have to commute. I'm more of quality of life kind of person. Having time off with my family is way more important than chasing an extra 50, 60 even a 100 grand. I've got enough to buy a house, hangar (in SoCal) and get my Stinson going again. So I'm happy. I hope you're nothing but happy with your career choices as well. That's what's great about aviation, we can all find the job that suits us.
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Sweet, you must have a good corporate gig! Do you think those are common?
 
I will be the first to agree that a great corporate job is one of the best jobs out there period, even outside aviation. Clearly these types of jobs exist, as there are some people on here and places like PPW that have them. One of my good friends also has a pretty decent one too, the type of job that I would EASILY walk away from the airlines forever for. But are these common? Unless I run in circles that have some EXTREMELY unlucky people, I don't think they are. The vast majority of corporate jobs have some combination of questionable management/owners, issues with stability, have issues with nepotism/favoritism, etc.

If you guys think kickass corporate jobs are plentiful and in the majority, than I'm all ears and would love to hear about it!
 
GypsyPilot said:
Sweet, you must have a good corporate gig! Do you think those are common?
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I actually do. I know we don't have a big corp continent of this website but over at PPW it's closer to 50/50 121/91 it seams. Most of those guys/girls seem very happy where they're at. I run into guys who work for similar companies at FBO's etc and they say they're happy. I do hear of the occasional horror story but it doesn't seem as often. I am speaking of strictly part 91. Charter is a whole different ball game. There are some decent 135's out there though.

If you want to come back to this side, I'd keep looking. Let the people that do have good gigs know that you'd leave for the right spot. Obviously it'd have to be for the right job/circumstance. If I was at a121 that was tolerable, it would be hard to risk going part 91. If you make up your mind that all part 91 is horrible, it'll be hard for you to look past that. If you keep an open mind, you might just find a good job when you weren't even looking.
 
PositionAndHold said:
I actually do. I know we don't have a big corp continent of this website but over at PPW it's closer to 50/50 121/91 it seams. Most of those guys/girls seem very happy where they're at. I run into guys who work for similar companies at FBO's etc and they say they're happy. I do hear of the occasional horror story but it doesn't seem as often. I am speaking of strictly part 91. Charter is a whole different ball game. There are some decent 135's out there though.

If you want to come back to this side, I'd keep looking. Let the people that do have good gigs know that you'd leave for the right spot. Obviously it'd have to be for the right job/circumstance. If I was at a121 that was tolerable, it would be hard to risk going part 91. If you make up your mind that all part 91 is horrible, it'll be hard for you to look past that. If you keep an open mind, you might just find a good job when you weren't even looking.
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That's awesome you think it's so high of a percentage. I'll admit I may be a victim of my environment to some extent... I worked corporate in south FL (shudder!), and had some interviews in Denver as well. I have several friends flying corporate here in DEN, and all have some major, serious problems that are unacceptable.

In DEN, the place that by far had the most professional experience during the interview process was Mountain Aviation. But that's charter (totally different, like you said), and paid WAY too low to even consider (I turned down their offer and stayed at SKW if that's any consideration). But still, I was shocked that a charter operator had their act together so much more than the part 91 guys.

I'm at the point now where if something amazing fell in my lap I'd totally consider it... But that's quite unlikely. For now it's legacies or bust. But as usual, plans change and who knows where I'll actually end up... If I'm still at a regional two years from now, I'll either be going back to engineering or push very hard for corporate aviation.

The funny part is that a few years ago I was extremely anti-airline and pro-corporate!
 
Like I said, if you just keep an eye out for that right scenario it might just happen. What I do recommend is people do their home work when it comes to accepting a part 91 job (which I'm sure you know, but for some peeps that are thinking about it as a career). What industry is the owner in? How long have they been in business? Is it a public or privately held company? What is the plane for, personal, business, 50/50? How long have they had a corp aircraft? How many airplanes have they owned? How many pilots have they had? Can you talk to the pilots that have left? Once those questions are answered, one will have a much better idea of what the job is all about.

I will say the people that seem happiest, work for a place that use the airplane for more than just an owner vacation shuttle. We probably do about 65% flying the owner and his family and the rest flying customers and salespeople/VP's. It's definitely a complex puzzle to find that right owner/company combo. People who fly just the owner/family tend to have the bigger owner problems when it comes to quality of life issues. Pop up/short notice trips, time off issues etc.

Just my .02.
 
Sorry, I didn't read the thread because it looked like it was just devolving into a typical jetcareers bitchfest . Sounds like you've got an axe to grind with a manager, nothing new in this business. I was just asking for info, not for you to 'help me get hired'. Sorry to have bothered you.
 
GypsyPilot said:
Ok. How so? Lots of guys leaving legacies for part 91 gigs?
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I think once some one gets into their early to mid forties and they're either at a legacy or a decent corp gig, they're not going to be to prone to leave one for the other. Though it does happen, @ZapBrannigan voted with his feet and I respect the hell out of that. And I'm sure there are some that tire of the airlines and jump ship. Now, if you're at a regional and tired of it for what ever reason or a crappy 91/135, I'm sure there is a lot more trading spaces. In leaner times, when there were more guys at legacy's on furlough and corp planes getting sold left and right, there was a lot more forced movement so to speak. A lot of retired legacy guys tend to look towards part 91 to fly a few more years as well.
 
PositionAndHold said:
It's considered debatable because for the last five years I've flown less than 300 hours a year, and averaged over 200 days off a year for each of those years. That's days at home. Not sitting in a hotel for a few nights. I make over six figures to do it.
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I think you have the wrong idea about what is possible at a major airline. That's actually not that great when compared to what you can do at a major living in base (except for SWA). I know guys at UAL, UPS, FDX, and DAL that have to go back to the sim every 90 days to keep their landing currency. If they break 100 hours in a year, they consider it a busy year. For my last few years at AirTran, I flew between 100-200 hours, and only spent a few dozen days away from home each year. All you have to do is live in base and bid reserve on the right airplane. And you can do a lot better than just breaking six figures.

That's not to say that those jobs aren't available in the corporate world. But they sure seem to be a whole lot harder to find and come with a lot less job security.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I think you have the wrong idea about what is possible at a major airline. That's actually not that great when compared to what you can do at a major living in base (except for SWA). I know guys at UAL, UPS, FDX, and DAL that have to go back to the sim every 90 days to keep their landing currency. If they break 100 hours in a year, they consider it a busy year. For my last few years at AirTran, I flew between 100-200 hours, and only spent a few dozen days away from home each year. All you have to do is live in base and bid reserve on the right airplane. And you can do a lot better than just breaking six figures.

That's not to say that those jobs aren't available in the corporate world. But they sure seem to be a whole lot harder to find and come with a lot less job security.
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Oh I don't doubt it. For every guy flying a hundred hours a year there's one flying 1000 hours by November and timing out for the year. Some one always has to be the junior guy on reserve, either it's a new FO or a new CA upgrade. I am sure I could have a decent quality of life at a major and I know I could make more money over the long run. For me, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm happy where I'm at. It's always subject to change.

I think job security wise we're entering a decent phase when it comes part 121 and 91. The people I fly for have operated a corporate aircraft for more than 60 years. They've been in business for almost a hundred years. They laid off around 30% of the workforce during the recession, yet kept their airplane. They could sell it tomorrow and I'm ok with that. When I went to XJT in '07 I was "two years from upgrade". That turned into a furlough almost exactly two years later. My dad went through the CO strike of '83 and quit. He then flew for the same people part 91 for almost 20 years before he retired. I don't know a 121 pilot that hasn't been through a bankruptcy, furlough, merger or liquidation. Like I said, I do think going forward, legacy job security should be pretty good. There has been lots of consolidation which only helps in the long run but in some cases hurts in the short term. That is what's crazy about his career, it can all change tomorrow. No matter our side of the fence we are subject to things that are completely out of our control. I'm by no means a 121 hater or just a corporate cheerleader. I'm a realist and wish nothing but the best for any pilot entering this insane world. I'm probably rambling more than any thing at this point, must be Mr. Jameson doing the typing. :)
 
GypsyPilot said:
That's awesome you think it's so high of a percentage. I'll admit I may be a victim of my environment to some extent... I worked corporate in south FL (shudder!), and had some interviews in Denver as well. I have several friends flying corporate here in DEN, and all have some major, serious problems that are unacceptable.

In DEN, the place that by far had the most professional experience during the interview process was Mountain Aviation. But that's charter (totally different, like you said), and paid WAY too low to even consider (I turned down their offer and stayed at SKW if that's any consideration). But still, I was shocked that a charter operator had their act together so much more than the part 91 guys.

I'm at the point now where if something amazing fell in my lap I'd totally consider it... But that's quite unlikely. For now it's legacies or bust. But as usual, plans change and who knows where I'll actually end up... If I'm still at a regional two years from now, I'll either be going back to engineering or push very hard for corporate aviation.

The funny part is that a few years ago I was extremely anti-airline and pro-corporate!
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Seems like you have it all figured out. You should write a book, perhaps "How To Run a Flight Department for Dummies."

Provide each JC'er with a free copy.
 
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