Video: 737 reverse thrust in the air?

deadstick said:
During landing, at 9 ft RA the PF engages the reversers, and drops like the proverbial rock. And for some reason, when the plane bounces with the reversers out, the RA indication exceeds 10 ft. What happen to the reversers?
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Similar to this?

I know some newer, smarter planes will automatically stow TRs and speedbrakes during a bounce (given certain conditions), but the older ones who knows. I'd imagine MDs and 737s are still rocking cables and pulleys.

Random: There was a guy in a Citation I used to fly that aborted a takeoff, pulled the buckets with the thrust levers at takeoff power (no idea, don't ask), and the thrust levers snapped to idle, breaking the copilot's left wrist who was guarding them.


 
z987k said:
I retracted my fixed gear in the flare once going for the flap handle. Somehow I managed to put it down still.
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Old Baron?

I picture Jerry as one of those "autogear" dudes who raises the gear handle before adding power for the roll. 'Cause Jerry likes to go faast!
 
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JeppUpdater said:
Similar to this?

I know some newer, smarter planes will automatically stow TRs and speedbrakes during a bounce (given certain conditions), but the older ones who knows. I'd imagine MDs and 737s are still rocking cables and pulleys.

Random: There was a guy in a Citation I used to fly that aborted a takeoff, pulled the buckets with the thrust levers at takeoff power (no idea, don't ask), and the thrust levers snapped to idle, breaking the copilot's left wrist who was guarding them.


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Some Beech! She it!
 
Crop Duster said:
But that led me to wonder what would happen if the T/Rs were out and you elected a go around on the bounce??
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This is kind of where my mind went... which I think is why it states in our manual that "operation of reverse thrust in flight is prohibited." But I don't know if that's just a company thing, or a Boeing manual copy/paste.

Seems weird that Boeing would make it possible, then tell you not to do it...
 
jtrain609 said:
Moving the flap or gear handle inside of whatever stabilized approach criteria you have set is somewhere between incredibly stupid and extremely dangerous.

I know a guy who did that in a light twin and grabbed the gear handle by mistake. He bought himself a 709 ride with that one. Cash transaction.

I know it's a joke around these parts, but the practice is an incredibly easy way to get yourself in trouble.
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Meh, I think it depends on the airplane. I don't think it's stupid or necessarily dangerous in many singles and can actually be super helpful...it can, EGADS! actually be useful in some lighter twins too depending on the circumstances and job.

In a King Air? Nah, probably not, I've seen it done in the 1900 nearly a decade ago, and tried it in the 99 (it didn't seem to make any difference other than to increase my landing roll distance), but as a technique, in certain airplanes, it has it's place. I probably wouldn't do it in anything larger than a seminole...

There have been more than a few people I've met who've sworn by going into beta in the flare in many types of airplanes, of course this is strictly VERBOTEN by the manufacturer (most of the time) , but that doesn't mean it isn't done. I've even seen it done in a few airplanes by some intrepid aviators in person (as in while I was sitting in the right seat). I didn't notice anything too out of the ordinary (other than poor speed control prior to this technique) and it didn't make a "clunker" landing - that said, there've been quite a few accidents where guys have tried to do this. Personally, I wouldn't recommend violating this particular AFM limitation unless your mains are at 1'agl or lower with minimal sink rate and you have zero possibility of a go-around. It's amusing to me, because they'd probably do better with better speed control, but like with all things in this business, probably not a big deal if you don't screw it up. If you do screw it up...well, then you're in for trouble.

A buddy of mine swore that in the turbine otter on wheels he was unable to get the thing to land if he was empty and light on fuel without going over the gate - essentially the exhaust of the monster garret was just keeping it flying along.
 
The PC-6 is certified for BETA use in flight and there are some wicked youtube videos of it.


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gotWXdagain said:
The PC-6 is certified for BETA use in flight and there are some wicked youtube videos of it.


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Which makes me say, "why not other airplanes?" I suspect the answer is more about lawyers than it is about actual departures from flight...though the question then becomes "do you want to be the guy to test it?" Which is typically answered "no, I'm alright, thanks."
 
ppragman said:
Which makes me say, "why not other airplanes?" I suspect the answer is more about lawyers than it is about actual departures from flight...though the question then becomes "do you want to be the guy to test it?" Which is typically answered "no, I'm alright, thanks."
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This is the same debate I had when I was instructing. I'm 99.9% certain a Seminole can recover from an upright spin, but I'm 0% willing to try it.


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gotWXdagain said:
This is the same debate I had when I was instructing. I'm 99.9% certain a Seminole can recover from an upright spin, but I'm 0% willing to try it.


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I'd reckon you're right under most circumstances. I'd suspect that that would be highly dependent on the location of the center of gravity and would probably take a lot longer than most folks are willing to endure. It's worth noting that spin recovery is only required to be shown possible in singles...and not even in all singles if they're shown to be "spin resistant." Here's the reg.

I'd also recommend enjoying this video:

 
I used to show my students that video. As to Beta in flight, well you're putting the prop to a very flat pitch, at slow airspeeds it's not going to overspeed it in flight any more than it would just after touchdown. But we're generally talking near stall speeds, not cruise. In cruise, I'd guess you'd overspeed it without any kind of overspeed protection, which would probably cause many undesigned-for vibrations.


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Crop Duster said:
I'd never heard of flight deployable TRs before.
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C-5, C-17, Concorde, DC-8, and I think the IL-62.


Related to this adventure:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Western_Airlines_Flight_314
Boeing 737 was designed such that when in air (as detected by weight on main gear) the thrust reverser system is de-energized. It then either remains at its last achieved position, or is opened by aerodynamic forces if it was opened by at least 2 inches.
...
Boeing simulations showed that aircraft was controllable with one engine at idle reverse and the other at full forward thrust in gear up, flaps 15 configuration. With flaps 25 and gear down, it was not possible to maintain level flight.
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It's common to use two of reversers in flight on the C-17 for a combat descent.

Also, the Pilates PC-6 uses beta in flight to get down fast after dropping off skydivers.

 
Shots of BAE 146 series water-bomber conversions fighting the Sunshine Fire near Boulder this week, show the rear-of-fuselage thrust flaps extended in flight.

I assume it's to slow the speed for the slurry drop to give it a smaller footprint & higher concentration of the slurry onto the target area of fire.

20170319__photopage%7E1_400.jpg
 
ppragman said:
You are completely correct - which is why it's a "bad idea." (tm). That doesn't mean people aren't doing it all the time...
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Same goes for shooting smack, smoking crack, shoving whatever the latest designer drug is up your ass. Whenever you think something is such a bad idea no sane person in their right mind would ever try it, along comes Joe Bagadonuts to prove you wrong.
 
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