VFR X/C Flightplans

juxtapilot

juxtapilot

Snowflake
Hey all,

Whenever I plan a cross country it usually takes me 20-30 minutes per leg to plan it. So on a 3 leg cross country I spend an hour to an hour and a half planning it. I know people are able to do it in under a half an hour, but are there tricks to doing so? Is it an ok practice to plan the X/C the night before (if it's an early morning flight?)

Aren't there any shortcuts?:rolleyes:
 
DUATS. Takes like 2 minutes and calculates all winds and such. If you already know exactly how to plan out an X/C, then there is no reason to torture yourself each and every time you plan to do one.

It is the flight planner on duats. Give it a try.
 
you can use dusts or aopa flight planner, if u prefer to do it yourself, electronic e6b def helps... I honestly never do it anymore I just track VOR stations LOL...

If no VOR is avaloable, I just look at the ground tell where I am from the chart, and do a suggested heding while constantly picking things on the ground.... Mostly VOR or ndb for me tho, they're everywhere

This is of course if I have no gps
 
taseal said:
you can use dusts or aopa flight planner, if u prefer to do it yourself, electronic e6b def helps... I honestly never do it anymore I just track VOR stations LOL...

If no VOR is avaloable, I just look at the ground tell where I am from the chart, and do a suggested heding while constantly picking things on the ground.... Mostly VOR or ndb for me tho, they're everywhere

This is of course if I have no gps
Click to expand...

I've used Duats and AOPA outside of flight training, but school requires full VFR flight plans with VFR checkpoints every 10 to 20 miles... This makes for an intense 250 mile X/C plan. I can't wait to get going on instrument stuff...
 
yeah I hear ya... when it coems to schools, they usually want it down without any computer software help....

best advice I can give for that is electronic e6b will help alot for doing the WCA, leg fuel etc etc. that alone will save 5-6 minutes per leg I would say.

besides that, do your route the night before, you don't need to know the winds for that at least. thats one thing out of the way... the rest, you can do before the flight.

when you get to instruement, it wont be so bad (well still bad, but not as bad lol) you'll already have all the magnetic headings along with distances, so thats one less thing to worry about :)
 
juxtapilot said:
I've used Duats and AOPA outside of flight training, but school requires full VFR flight plans with VFR checkpoints every 10 to 20 miles... This makes for an intense 250 mile X/C plan. I can't wait to get going on instrument stuff...
Click to expand...

are you picking the points and connecting the dots giving you a line that zig-zags all over the place?

draw a straight line from origin to destination, making minimal turns if needed for airspace avoidance, etc.

Then along your line pick out checkpoints every 10-20 miles. With your true course being the same for most or all of the flight and your wind correction angle and groundspeed will be the same between checkpoints, and calculating your checkpoint ETAs becomes easy and quick.
 
Planning during PPL training and planning in the "real world" are two different animals. Obviously, taking the time to learn how to do it thoroughly is essential in a pilot's education.

But after you start flying a lot after you get your PPL you will definately see that once you go tear up the skies, things are different than in your wx briefing. Even if the winds are 5 knots different or a few degrees of azimuth different from your planning, your perfect numbers aren't quite so perfect anymore.

I used to be a HUGE stickler on precise, precise X/C planning, including a precise TOC point, a nice, neat nav log with every box filled in for each of my 15nm legs. Holy crapola, that will wear you out after a while. I don't even use "checkpoints" anymore when doing a VFR XC. You just learn how to constantly cross check your outside surroundings with your chart. Therefore, you really only need a new calculation for each time your course changes.

Point of my post - just do it nice and thoroughly for now, but once you get more experience you will start to learn the best ways to do the essential things, and do it with good ballpark figures. Aside from actual IFR flying, I find VFR XC navigating by pilotage and DR one of the most satisfying things in flying.
 
When I worked at IFTA we had our students do intense flight plans like that. It would sometimes take'em up to 1.5 hours for a long x-country. There's really nothing you can do for that kind of stuff... besides, shortcuts, when doing a flight plan, isn't always a good thing... Don't want to make a simple mistake, right?.... the more you do it, the faster and easier it'll be
 
Juxta, I know you're a fellow UND'er, so have you checked out FliteStar? They put it on all the laptops, and it seriously makes planning super quick. I'm not really sure if you can plug in individual checkpoints or not, but it does give you precise fuel numbers and winds/temp aloft interpolations. It also has the performance numbers for the Warrior already in there, and then it just makes the calculations based on the weather briefing that it will download. Once you have the ground speeds, then it's easy to just fill in the ETE's at all the checkpoints. I know it's really helped me out a ton in Avit 221.
 
Freakin' DE didn't even look at my flight plan during my Commercial oral... :banghead: :D

I'm a fan of DUATS' flight planner myself.
 
Anyone know if fltplan.com or any of the other planning tools will export a route that can be downloaded and imported into a GPS (Garmin or otherwise)? That'd be pretty slick, and not terribly difficult, I'd imagine.
 
aloft said:
Anyone know if fltplan.com or any of the other planning tools will export a route that can be downloaded and imported into a GPS (Garmin or otherwise)? That'd be pretty slick, and not terribly difficult, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...
I have been looking for that type of export program for a year now. It would be awesome to just connect my Airmap 600c to the laptop and export the whole flight plan to the GPS. Instead if I have user waypoints not in the database, I just a copy the coordinates.
 
casey said:
are you picking the points and connecting the dots giving you a line that zig-zags all over the place?

draw a straight line from origin to destination, making minimal turns if needed for airspace avoidance, etc.

Then along your line pick out checkpoints every 10-20 miles. With your true course being the same for most or all of the flight and your wind correction angle and groundspeed will be the same between checkpoints, and calculating your checkpoint ETAs becomes easy and quick.
Click to expand...

I draw a straight line... and pick stuff in between. I guess I always stress out when finding time between checkpoints etc...

turbojet28 said:
Planning during PPL training and planning in the "real world" are two different animals. Obviously, taking the time to learn how to do it thoroughly is essential in a pilot's education.

But after you start flying a lot after you get your PPL you will definately see that once you go tear up the skies, things are different than in your wx briefing. Even if the winds are 5 knots different or a few degrees of azimuth different from your planning, your perfect numbers aren't quite so perfect anymore.

I used to be a HUGE stickler on precise, precise X/C planning, including a precise TOC point, a nice, neat nav log with every box filled in for each of my 15nm legs. Holy crapola, that will wear you out after a while. I don't even use "checkpoints" anymore when doing a VFR XC. You just learn how to constantly cross check your outside surroundings with your chart. Therefore, you really only need a new calculation for each time your course changes.

Point of my post - just do it nice and thoroughly for now, but once you get more experience you will start to learn the best ways to do the essential things, and do it with good ballpark figures. Aside from actual IFR flying, I find VFR XC navigating by pilotage and DR one of the most satisfying things in flying.
Click to expand...

After I got my PPL, I would just jump onto Duats and pick up a flight plan. Real easy, way less stressful.

ChadW346 said:
Juxta, I know you're a fellow UND'er, so have you checked out FliteStar? They put it on all the laptops, and it seriously makes planning super quick. I'm not really sure if you can plug in individual checkpoints or not, but it does give you precise fuel numbers and winds/temp aloft interpolations. It also has the performance numbers for the Warrior already in there, and then it just makes the calculations based on the weather briefing that it will download. Once you have the ground speeds, then it's easy to just fill in the ETE's at all the checkpoints. I know it's really helped me out a ton in Avit 221.
Click to expand...

I didn't know I had Flightstar! So I have been playing with it and it seems pretty cool. I might have to investigate this more.

aloft said:
Anyone know if fltplan.com or any of the other planning tools will export a route that can be downloaded and imported into a GPS (Garmin or otherwise)? That'd be pretty slick, and not terribly difficult, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...

Looks like our Jepp flightstar has a GPS output. I have absolutly no idea if anyone uses it here. I just found out I have it on my computer an hour ago! :D
 
aloft said:
Freakin' DE didn't even look at my flight plan during my Commercial oral... :banghead: :D

I'm a fan of DUATS' flight planner myself.
Click to expand...

I had the same thing happen to me. Planned out a 371NM XC, which took the better part of 6 hours+. During the oral I think he just briefly thumbed through it and said "Good looking flight plan" and that was it! :banghead:

I was probably about an inch away from grabbing him by the collar and screaming "READ IT, DAMN IT, READ IT!!!"
 
I'd just do one on the AOPA flight planner and then copy it to a paper flight plan.

Every 10 miles is over kill.
 
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