Vfr Transition Phraseology Question

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Vrefplusten

Well-Known Member
Hey Guys,

Trying to refine my techniques, and came across an interesting situation where I might have discovered something I might have been doing incorrectly for a long time, although Im not sure...

Heres the situation:

A VFR flight from KEMT to KVNY:

Got a squak code leaving EMT and was handed off to SCT. Contacted SCT, stated callsign and altitude, was acknowledged and continued. Upon handoff to KBUR Tower, I made contact and stated Callsign and Altitude. Now, the pilot I was flying with chastised me and said that I needed to provide more detail to the tower controller upon check in, so he knew exactly what we were doing. He claimed that I was to tell them that we were a "VFR transition, northwest bound, going to Van Nuys."

My rationing tells me that since BUR tower accepted the handoff from SCT, the controller would know where I was, the fact that I was tagged up with my Squak as going to VNY would tell him I was indeed going there, and he would have been expecting me to confirm my altitude, which I did..

Now my question for you controllers are these: Should I have in fact, provided "more" detail to the tower? Should I be providing "more" detail to the SCT controller? Is the VFR "handoff" process nonexistent, or different from IFR procedures, such that it could ever leave a tower controller misinformed as to my intentions?

I'm worried that I am not fully understanding the process with VFR aircraft that goes on behind the scenes from the controlers P.O.V.

Thanks for your help guys...
 
Vrefplusten said:
I'm worried that I am not fully understanding the process with VFR aircraft that goes on behind the scenes from the controlers P.O.V.
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When they leave me on the same code and don't terminate radar I assume the same thing. Sometimes it's lack of coordination other times it controller error. Just check in and they'll ask if necessary.
 
No VFR handoffs transfer the same way as IFR. Only thing with VFR's is they often confuse the computer so I get jibberish as the destination, and I'll have to ask. But I don't expect you to check with it.
 
Call sign and altitude. If they want more information, they'll ask. And really, you are not looking for any type of clearence unless going through Bravo. Call sign "clears" you through Charlie and delta, so fly on.
 
I would of wanted to hear type/tail#/location/altitude/intentions on your first contact, this allows the controller to confirm the information on his strip is correct, and will help reduce a controllers workload by not forcing him/her to request the information from you because you provided it up front.

in a couple socal sectors it's mandatory the controller confirm your info, so by providing it upfront you just reduced the transmission count by a minimum of 3, which doesn't sound like much but take that 3 and multiply it by 25, that's 75 transmissions on only 25 aircraft.

Even though your vfr the reason I want to know your altitude is because it allows me to confirm what you've just given me with what's displayed on the scope.

Hope this helps.
 
Hey Guys, thanks a lot for your input..

Sparky, just trying to clarify from what you said...I think Im understanding you correctly. Upon initial contact with JUST the tower , even though I have still been in contact with socal prior, still give you all that info?

Now would that "reiteration" of info only be appropriate when contacting an actual tower for transition, or could you think of other situations where you would want to re-state this info to a tracon controller?

Thanks!
 
If you were handed off without out a change in squawk (1200) then it sounds to me like you did everything you're supposed to do.
 
Some towers, usually those within an approach control (including those in Class D airspace), will have a radar display up in the tower cab. They'll keep you on the code all the way to the airport because it allows the tower to see your call sign and other information in the data block. Depending on how you are being handled and the equipment up in the tower, they may or may not have a strip on your flight. This is from the few towers I have toured as a pilot and controller.

Now, from my perspective working low altitude at the center, we ordinarily do not do much coordination with our class D towers regarding aircraft on VFR flight following. I'm going to assume that the two towers we work with that have flight data equipment do get a strip on VFRs, I've never bothered to ask them if they do or not. One tower has no flight data equipment, so they will have no information on a VFR at all . Even when they do have a strip with no radar display, the guy in the tower has to be familiar with where the fix is you picked up flight following to know what direction you're coming from. With that in mind, if you're dealing with a class D tower, I'd at least give my call sign, altitude and position when checking on.
 
I can kinda see the tower's point here. Unlike the center or tracon guys, they work in a mostly visual environment, with the radar as an aid to situational awareness. Even if you're on a discrete squawk, they're still gonna want to know who you are, where you are, and what you want. A simple "Cessna 123, six southwest, four thousand, transition to Van Nuys" would be sufficient.
 
Vrefplusten said:
Hey Guys, thanks a lot for your input..
Sparky, just trying to clarify from what you said...I think Im understanding you correctly. Upon initial contact with JUST the tower , even though I have still been in contact with socal prior, still give you all that info?

Now would that "reiteration" of info only be appropriate when contacting an actual tower for transition, or could you think of other situations where you would want to re-state this info to a tracon controller?
Thanks!
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An ideal initial transmission to tower or radar controller would be for you as pic to provide all information upfront. This will accomplish several things, it will help reduce a controllers workload, by allowing him/her to know exactly where your located and your intentions. Not all towers will have a computer generated strip available, so if your in the habit of providing all info upon initial contact, it prevents the controller from wasting his time playing fifty questions... As your well aware your destination handles approx 250,000 a/c annually or 685 a/c daily... Take that 685 and multiply it by 3 unnecessary transmissions for a total of 2055 daily or 85.6 transmissions per hour... That's a huge waste of a controllers time, who could be utilizing that time for arrival/departure transmissions.

Now someones probably going to say, well they didn't have you squawk a dozen, and they didn't because even if they didn't have a computer generated strip, someone sitting next to and assisting the controller from socal called the tower and the tower hand wrote a strip with all your info. This in its self would require the controller to then waste his time requesting all your info so he can confirm what he has on his strip is correct if you don't provide all information upfront.

It takes very little time for you as pic to provide your information upfront, and in doing so, you've just help decrease a controllers workload.
 
As a Tracon controller, If I received a handoff on you, I only want to hear your call sign and altitude. Should you be landing within our airpace, the appropriate atis code or that you have the awos also included in the intitial transmisstion.
 
Here's a fact some of you might find interesting...
The busiest TRACON in the world Southern California TRACON - SoCal Approach, services 62 airports...
 
A150K said:
If you were handed off without out a change in squawk (1200) then it sounds to me like you did everything you're supposed to do.
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I flew VFR about every day for 9 months in SoCal. Rarely was I squawking 1200. The only times was switching to tower for arrival. Most times, I landed with a discrete code.

My flights were all over the basin or one day cross country (outbound and inbound in one day to other regions). Some flights I might be assigned 2 or three different codes.

Just saying that it isn't only 1200.
 
AUATC said:
As a Tracon controller, If I received a handoff on you, I only want to hear your call sign and altitude.
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Socal, Nxxxxx, 6,500 level (or, climbing/descending).
Should you be landing within our airpace, the appropriate atis code or that you have the awos also included in the intitial transmisstion.
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Socal, Nxxxxx landing with (ATIS code), (or, with the one minute weather).

And key the mic a half second or so do avoid clipped calls. The same goes for end of transmission.
 
Bump: for transition around LGB. SoCal does an amazing job around the Harbor area. If you are on a code and transition a tower D airspace, it reduces frequency congestion to state callsign, alt, destination.."(airport)Tower, cessna 501SC, 2,000, for Hawthorne."

In VFR, no code, no radar services, or have been terminated..."(airport)Tower, Cessna 501SC, Queen Mary, 2,000, transition hawthorne." [or similar]
 
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