VFR Minimums & Cloud Clearances

Zero1Niner

Zero1Niner

Well-Known Member
Got a bit tripped up on this, and need a better explanation. If basic VFR is 3 miles and 1,000ft (91.155(c)), how can you maintain VFR cloud clearance requirements in C,D or E when you only have a 1,000ft ceiling and 3 miles, and you need to be 500ft below the clouds, and average TPA's are 1000ft above the airport elevation??
 
So your question is about airports that have controlled airspace all the way to the surface.

You don't have to fly at published TPA when coming into an airport. There is nothing illegal with approaching the airport at 500 AGL.

If you do plan to stay in the pattern and fly 1000 feet agl then it would require clouds to be at 1500, even though it is VFR, technically marginal VFR.

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Simply, they are not mutually exclusive.
 
Nothing inherently wrong with flying into the airport at 500 AGL, but is that considered congested airspace? Can you safely make an emergency landing at that altitude without causing undue hazard to persons or property?
 
bLizZuE said:
Nothing inherently wrong with flying into the airport at 500 AGL, but is that considered congested airspace? Can you safely make an emergency landing at that altitude without causing undue hazard to persons or property?
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You do it all the time on a circling maneuver.
 
Just watch for heli's if you are flying to an unfamiliar port that may do heli ops as they will often pattern at 400-500 AGL and those little robies can sneak up on you.
 
MikeD said:
You do it all the time on a circling maneuver.
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I disagree.

I think the FAA would view it entirely different if it was a circling maneuver versus entering the airport environment below the minimum safe altitude for flight.

I agree that the risk for causing undue hazard exists the same, however my original comment spoke to the regulatory restriction on entering the airport environment at 500 AGL.
 
bLizZuE said:
I disagree.

I think the FAA would view it entirely different if it was a circling maneuver versus entering the airport environment below the minimum safe altitude for flight.

I agree that the risk for causing undue hazard exists the same, however my original comment spoke to the regulatory restriction on entering the airport environment at 500 AGL.
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I was talking about the physical aspect of entering a traffic pattern at 500 AGL and the safety aspects throughout. Same for both maneuvers. 500AGL is normally the helo TPA.
 
bLizZuE said:
I agree that the risk for causing undue hazard exists the same, however my original comment spoke to the regulatory restriction on entering the airport environment at 500 AGL.
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A CFI was giving me a hard time about making turns below 700' !!!. (There is an Advisory Circular that says don't turn until 300' below TPA.)

At the busier airports here, tower will ask you why you aren't turning at 200'.

Anyway, if you ask for a Special VFR, clear of clouds/1 mile is all you need. Perfectly legal. If it wasn't, there would be no such thing as special VFR. The 500AGL rule doesn't apply when taking off or approaching to land.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
A CFI was giving me a hard time about making turns below 700' !!!. (There is an Advisory Circular that says don't turn until 300' below TPA.)

At the busier airports here, tower will ask you why you aren't turning at 200'.

Anyway, if you ask for a Special VFR, clear of clouds/1 mile is all you need. Perfectly legal. If it wasn't, there would be no such thing as special VFR. The 500AGL rule doesn't apply when taking off or approaching to land.
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I'd like to see that AC if you can dig it up.

As for the rest, remember, whatever altitude you feel is safe (and that's the key, not legality, if you're stuck out there scud running back in and can't IFR for whatever reason) is going to be 500' Below where the clouds were at when you flew by if the tower asks.

Tower: Cessna 1AB say flight conditions.
Cessna 1AB: Visibility at least 3 maybe more, ehhh (insert hymning and hawing here), looks like the ceiling is (quickly glances at altimeter indicating 700'AGL) at least 1200'AGL here, at least, probably more like 1500'
Tower: Cessna 1AB, thanks (chuckles and puts away note pad for violations)
 
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