VFR in IFR conditions

bLizZuE

Calling for engine starts en français
I was at an uncontrolled airport the other day conducting an IFR cross country training flight. We had arrived at this airport less than an hour prior and since I have watched 3 airplanes land. 2 I listened arrive to the airport over the CTAF making traffic calls from their respective cardinal directions. At no point did I get the feeling they were inbound on the single instrument approach serving the airport. I felt very strongly they were VFR in what I considered to be barely VFR in the class Golf airspace that served the airport.

I thought about it for a few minutes, and resolved that VFR could be accomplished as long as the aircraft were clear of the clouds. Could.

Fast forward to now. I'm in my airplane again, aircraft fueled with low lead, me fueled with turkey and cheese. Next to my airplane on the ramp is an empty 172. While conducting our pre taxi briefs and checklists two men board the 172 and begin to taxi. I didn't hear a taxi call. I didn't hear a call for IFR clearance on the RCO frequency for the closest approach facility. About 5 minutes later I hear them call CTAF with "departing runway XX south".

Current conditions are VV001 and 1SM or less. I'm estimating these because ASOS was OTS, however the closest airport was reporting similar conditions. Sitting in my aircraft on the ramp, I was unable to see completely across the airfield. After departing we were IMC by 150 feet and breaking through the top at almost 700 feet.

Checking in with departure and no 172 on frequency there.

I haven't stopped thinking about this since it happened. What possesses people to do such stupid things? Why were airplanes using this uncontrolled field for VFR flight operations in such poor visibility? Not just one, but multiple aircraft had come and gone during conditions that I barely feel comfortable departing IFR in while in a single engine piston aircraft.

Cloud clearance requirements are there for a reason. Maneuvering low level in low visibility isn't smart. Spatial disorientation is real and it will kill you. Being conservative isn't just for politicians. Statistics aren't just numbers, they're people that are no longer alive because of being unable to make good judgement calls, or not being able to identify and stop the error chain.

Stay safe people.
 
Saw the same thing last week at our airport - C150 comes skimming over the trees in and out of the soup and lands. 600' ceiling and 2mi vis.
Highly doubted it was on an IFR flight plan!

Amazing what you see at airports!

Bp244
 
Maybe I am misreading but you can fly in G with 1 mile clear of clouds so if you were operating out of a class G airport then there is nothing illegal about it.... I wont fly VFR if I only have 1 mile vis, but its perfectly legal.
 
Maybe I am misreading but you can fly in G with 1 mile clear of clouds so if you were operating out of a class G airport then there is nothing illegal about it.... I wont fly VFR if I only have 1 mile vis, but its perfectly legal.

Wouldnt that be really hard to do with VV001?
 
Maybe they didn't know they could get approach on the ground and got a clearance over the phone. Maybe you didn't hear them get their clearance during your "taxi briefs". Maybe they were on a different frequency. Maybe they cancelled and went VFR as soon as they were on top. Maybe it's not your job to be the Airplane Police.
 
Maybe they didn't know they could get approach on the ground and got a clearance over the phone. Maybe you didn't hear them get their clearance during your "taxi briefs". Maybe they were on a different frequency. Maybe they cancelled and went VFR as soon as they were on top. Maybe it's not your job to be the Airplane Police.
I know I am a newbie, but Maybe those people are a danger to everyone out there flying and maybe they could end up killing you with their actions.

Just sayin.:dunno:
 
I know I am a newbie, but Maybe those people are a danger to everyone out there flying and maybe they could end up killing you with their actions.

Just sayin.:dunno:

Entirely possible. And you have no way of knowing. If you want to work for the FAA, by all means, apply. Just sayin.
 
I know I am a newbie, but Maybe those people are a danger to everyone out there flying and maybe they could end up killing you with their actions.

Just sayin.:dunno:

Maybe they were doing everything legally too. Clearance over the phone, cancel in the air.

Unless I KNOW FOR A FACT they did something stupid AND illegal, I don't dwell on it much, and don't let it bother me. I don't have a use for ulcers at 24.
 
I was at an uncontrolled airport the other day conducting an IFR cross country training flight. We had arrived at this airport less than an hour prior and since I have watched 3 airplanes land. 2 I listened arrive to the airport over the CTAF making traffic calls from their respective cardinal directions. At no point did I get the feeling they were inbound on the single instrument approach serving the airport. I felt very strongly they were VFR in what I considered to be barely VFR in the class Golf airspace that served the airport.

I thought about it for a few minutes, and resolved that VFR could be accomplished as long as the aircraft were clear of the clouds. Could.

Fast forward to now. I'm in my airplane again, aircraft fueled with low lead, me fueled with turkey and cheese. Next to my airplane on the ramp is an empty 172. While conducting our pre taxi briefs and checklists two men board the 172 and begin to taxi. I didn't hear a taxi call. I didn't hear a call for IFR clearance on the RCO frequency for the closest approach facility. About 5 minutes later I hear them call CTAF with "departing runway XX south".

Current conditions are VV001 and 1SM or less. I'm estimating these because ASOS was OTS, however the closest airport was reporting similar conditions. Sitting in my aircraft on the ramp, I was unable to see completely across the airfield. After departing we were IMC by 150 feet and breaking through the top at almost 700 feet.

Checking in with departure and no 172 on frequency there.

I haven't stopped thinking about this since it happened. What possesses people to do such stupid things? Why were airplanes using this uncontrolled field for VFR flight operations in such poor visibility? Not just one, but multiple aircraft had come and gone during conditions that I barely feel comfortable departing IFR in while in a single engine piston aircraft.

Cloud clearance requirements are there for a reason. Maneuvering low level in low visibility isn't smart. Spatial disorientation is real and it will kill you. Being conservative isn't just for politicians. Statistics aren't just numbers, they're people that are no longer alive because of being unable to make good judgment calls, or not being able to identify and stop the error chain.

Stay safe people.

Since this whole post is based on opinion you really have no proof of any wrong doing. You don't have an official weather report for the airport and you're basing what other people are doing off of what you wouldn't do.
I've departed several airports after talking to someone on a different frequency without making any calls at that airport. Does this make me a potential serial killer? You have no idea of what skill level these people are at. They may know the area and be comfortable with flying at 100 feet in 1 mile vis. At 90 knots one has plenty of time. Theres a reason theres a reg that allows one to do this. Would you fly at night, in ice, mod. turbulence in a light single or twin. Some won't. Many others call it routine. Does this make someone "dangerous" or "careless"?
Follow the rules and don't worry about what other people do. If there doing something wrong it will catch up with them.
 
Maybe they didn't know they could get approach on the ground and got a clearance over the phone. Maybe you didn't hear them get their clearance during your "taxi briefs". Maybe they were on a different frequency. Maybe they cancelled and went VFR as soon as they were on top. Maybe it's not your job to be the Airplane Police.


:yeahthat: I'm to busy worring about trying to keep my own butt out of trouble.
 
I'm not asking this to be contentious, but what would your attitude be if you witnessed something that you absolutely knew was a violation that could get someone killed. I know everyone keeps saying "your not in the FAA" but the FAA obviously doesn't have someone posted at every po-dunk airport in the country. What if that time it "catches up with them" is when they come crashing out of minimums and into me? Don't pilots have a duty to help make the sky as safe as they can? Again, I am really asking this out of ignorance and curiosity. What is the protocal?
 
I'm not asking this to be contentious, but what would your attitude be if you witnessed something that you absolutely knew was a violation that could get someone killed. I know everyone keeps saying "your not in the FAA" but the FAA obviously doesn't have someone posted at every po-dunk airport in the country. What if that time it "catches up with them" is when they come crashing out of minimums and into me? Don't pilots have a duty to help make the sky as safe as they can? Again, I am really asking this out of ignorance and curiosity. What is the protocal?


As far as I know, there is no set protocal. But these are not blatant violations. What they are is "I woulden't do that, so it must be a violation!"
 
Forget user fees - it's stupidity that's causing our rates to go up. I would have found the tail number. In the good chance the people flying the plane weren't the owner, I'm sure the owner would want to know.
 
what would your attitude be if you witnessed something that you absolutely knew was a violation that could get someone killed.

If absolutely knew it was a violation, had a high probability of getting someone (else) killed, and was flagrant and intentional, I would likely report it to the FAA. However, those conditions are nearly impossible to meet and certainly were nowhere near being met in your little paeon to air safety.

What is the protocal?
There is no "protocal". Each will respond to each situation as he or she sees fit, weighing the various particulars against their natures or instincts, and be judged by their peers based on this response. I prefer to er on the side of not being an informant against my fellow man.
 
You misread the overcast layer from 150ft to 700ft?

You misread your sentence after saying you were guessing?

I dont get why you guys want to go on a witch hunt for people that were by the book legal. You have no idea what could actually be going on. You can depart an uncontrolled field without the use of a radio. They could have already been talking to ATC picking up their clearance. You dont know the actual weather so why make claims that they were doing something illegal? Again its not something I would do in bad weather but its not illegal. You cant report somebody for attempting to attempt murder.
 
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