VFR in Alpha???

EDUC8-or

EDUC8-or

Well-Known Member
So I was covering for my buddy during a CFI ground lab. This guy was teaching an airspace lesson. The people in the class insisted you can be legal AND VFR in Alpha. Their argument was lost comms in VFR. I can see what they were saying, but my argument was you can not go into the "A" without an IFR clearance. And if you do lose comms, technically you're still on an IFR clearance, even if you land VFR.

Was I wrong? Is there an exception or two where you can go INTO the Alpha legally VFR?
 
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So I was covering for my buddy during a CFI ground lab. This guy was teaching an airspace lesson. The people in the class insisted you can be legal AND VFR in Alpha. Their argument was lost comms in VFR. I can see what they were saying, but my argument was you can not go into the "A" without an IFR clearance. And if you do lose comms, technically you're still on an IFR clearance, even if you land VFR.

Was I wrong? Is there an exception or two where you can go INTO the Alpha legally VFR?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps if you declare an emergency and are in a type of plane that can fly into that airspace?

That is what I think might be it.
 
I'm not a CFII or anything, but I do have some instrument experience and what you are saying sounds corrrect: You are already on an IFR clnc to be in class A in the first place, if you go nordo, you will follow the IFR lost comms procedure.
 
Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each person operating
an aircraft in class A airspace must conduct that operation under instrument
flight rules (IFR) and in compliance with the following:
(a) Clearance. Operations may be conducted only under an ATC clearance
received prior to entering the airspace.
(b) Communications. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft
operating in class A airspace must be equipped with a two-way radio capable
of communicating with ATC on a frequency assigned by ATC. Each pilot must
maintain two-way radio communications with ATC while operating in Class A
airspace.
(c) transponder requirement. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person
may operate an aircraft within class A airspace unless that aircraft is
equipped with the applicable equipment specified in Sec. |91.215|.
(d) ATC authorizations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this
section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC
facility having jurisdiction of the airspace concerned. In the case of an
inoperative transponder, ATC may immediately approve an operation within a
class A airspace area allowing flight to continue, if desired, to the airport
of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to proceed to a
place where suitable repairs can be made, or both. Requests for deviation
from any provision of this section must be submitted in writing, at least 4
days before the proposed operation. ATC may authorize a deviation on a
continuing basis or for an individual flight.
 
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Their argument was lost comms in VFR.

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As always, one could declare an emergency I suppose. Should one be in clouds where ice is picking up and they're not far from the top of the clouds and Class A, climb to get out of it, although higher is likely to be colder and therefore won't shed the ice.

Anyway, I was just saying that in light of the question. Seriously though, some hot-dogs feel the reason to only find/learn any LOOPHOLES.

For anyone who feels special to make up their own rules -- 91.3(b)
 
In order to be VFR anywhere, you have to maintain certain visibility and cloud clearance requirements. Ask your class to find those requirements for Class A airspace. Hint: They don't exist.

Perhaps you can be VMC in class A, but not VFR.
 
I fly VFR ( no IFR flight plan nor talking to anyone specifically )at FL280 and below alot.

and its legal ...


Jim
 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just rub it in!
wink.gif
 
Yeah, I think what Jim is refering to is that there is not Class A airspace outside the contiguous United States. I am not sure what Canada has or Iraq for that matter. But there is no Class A over Hawaii, so you could fly about 18,000 there and not be in class A.

I have flown over 20,000ft in my paraglider.
 
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I have flown over 20,000ft in my paraglider.

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O2 or just holding your breath? Unless they make pressurized paragliders.
smile.gif
 
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I have flown over 20,000ft in my paraglider.

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Dude ... 20K ... that would scare the snot out of me. Did you have O2? How cold was it? Did you see any "traffic"?

You were right no class A where I've been flying lately. Afghanistan is suppose to be standing up thier IFR structure in April, should be interesting ... remember the recent crash of the 737. We discussed it on another thread whether or not Kabul had an instrument approach, I just got the approaches ( non precision ), the rwy elevation is 5871 and the min safe alt w/i 25nm is 17,500, 16,100 and 16,500.

Jim
 
It was in Telluride and we used to be able to call up the FSS and let them know we planned on entering Class A on that day. Somehow, and I am not sure how, at the time I wasn't a pilot, all we had to do is call and they diverted traffic. But then again, there are no airways going through the area. The Cones VOR, (ETL) is a low class VOR.

Yeah, we all had O2. I can't tell you when everyone else turning it on, but for most it was about 17,000. The launch site was at 12,250. I lived at 10,000ft when I was living there.

We all wore ski clothing and bundled up. It was really cold up there. This was summer of course. The thermals don't go that high in the winter.

It was a blast. But it was realy scary too. I remember holding out my hand and seeing that the size of the town of Telluride (2,000 people) could be covered up with my thumb at that altitude. But there is really nothing like it.

When are you coming home Jim?
 
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Yeah, I think what Jim is refering to is that there is not Class A airspace outside the contiguous United States.

[/ QUOTE ]here sure is Class A outside the US. The alphabet airspace is an international classification. It's just not always above 18,000'. There are areas, in the UK for example, where Class A comes down to below 3000 AGL.
 
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I have flown over 20,000ft in my paraglider.


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Dude that's awesome. It's been a couple of years since I've actually flown, but I've logged about 130 total flight in a paraglider. I didn't have a GPS but I think the highest I ever was was about 15,000. And that was WAY up ther for a paraglider. I had no idea you could fly as high as 20,000. That's amazing!

My instructor was Dixon White, RIP.
 
Oh, I remember Dixon. He came to Telluride when we hosted nationals there. Nice guy

Yeah, I have had friends go over 21,500 in their hang glider. One dude told us he made it to 23,000 on day. But no one really believe him I think cloud base was about 21.500 that day. So we all thought we was full of it. That woudl have been 1500 of IMC. And IMC in a paraglider or hang glider is not fun. Done that too
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have flown over 20,000ft in my paraglider.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude ... 20K ... that would scare the snot out of me. Did you have O2? How cold was it? Did you see any "traffic"?

You were right no class A where I've been flying lately. Afghanistan is suppose to be standing up thier IFR structure in April, should be interesting ... remember the recent crash of the 737. We discussed it on another thread whether or not Kabul had an instrument approach, I just got the approaches ( non precision ), the rwy elevation is 5871 and the min safe alt w/i 25nm is 17,500, 16,100 and 16,500.

Jim

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Back when I was in Afghan, and Iraq for that matter, flying in solid IMC while VFR was the norm. Deconfliction between flights of aircraft was procedural or communicated, while we maintained MARSA interflight.
 
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