VFR Charts Required

M

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
This seems to be somewhat of a debate.

The questions stands are current VFR charts required for VFR flight?

In Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot, there is a paragraph that says -

"VFR charts are required for VFR flight. The NTSB has determined that IFR charts do not contain sufficient information for VFR pilotage in the event of a compete radio failure or other emergency that would require visual reference to landmarks."
While I can agree that it may be careless and wreckless to fly without them, I am unaware of an acual, spelled out regulation that discussest such a requirement.
 
meritflyer said:
This seems to be somewhat of a debate.

The questions stands are current VFR charts required for VFR flight?

In Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot, there is a paragraph that says -

"VFR charts are required for VFR flight. The NTSB has determined that IFR charts do not contain sufficient information for VFR pilotage in the event of a compete radio failure or other emergency that would require visual reference to landmarks."
While I can agree that it may be careless and wreckless to fly without them, I am unaware of an acual, spelled out regulation that discussest such a requirement.
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There's no specific FAR that requires a basic Part 91 flight to carry current charts, VFR or IFR. There is a Part 91 FAR that requires Large and Turbine Powered Multiengine Airplanes and Fractional aircraft to carry them (see 91.503).

But, if there is any kind of problem involving an airspace violation or information that appears on a chart, you can bet that the FAA will claim a violation of 91.103 (all pertinent information) or 91.13 (reckless operation).

"Everything Explained" is referring to a 1996 NTSB case where a VFR pilot took off from Norwood MA without VFR charts and busted the Boston Class B airspace. The pilot tried to argue that he knew he was near the Class B and repeatedly tried to contact ATC, so the FAA should go easy on him. No dice. From the NTSB opinion upholding a 90-day suspension:

==============================
We agree with the law judge that this was egregious conduct for any pilot. Taking off without necessary familiarization and without proper charts into an obviously congested airspace such as the Boston area, and continuing the flight after failing to obtain a clearance obviously justified a finding of carelessness, at a minimum. Even an assumption that further FAA tapes would show that respondent made multiple attempts to reach ATC would not lessen the seriousness of his actions.
==============================

"Everything Explained" is not immune from a desire to simplify and "you always have to have them" is much "simpler" than "it's a good idea because even though there's no reg requiring it, other regs may come into play if there is a problem." Unfortunately, "simpler" often means at least partly wrong.
 
Here's how it is: As long as you don't ever need them, you are not required to have them. The second you need a chart and don't have it, you are in violation of 91.103, and 91.13.
 
I know your question pertains to applicable FAR's, but IMHO it is just good form to fly with local sectionals if at all possible. No reason to rob yourself of useful SA. I've even used them while flying IFR as long as I am not IMC as well :bandit:
 
its been awhile since i opened a far/aim but i could have sworn there was something in there saying you need to have the most up to date materials.
 
amorris311 said:
well it should be in there..
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What can I say. Some people like more regulations to regulate other people; others are comfortable with less.

I always have current charts but I don't see any particular reason why a pilot flying a 172 over a route that he knows like the back of his hand for the umpteen millionth time without incident should be busted on a ramp check because the sectional under his seat hasn't been opened or replaced in years. Apparently you do.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
What can I say. Some people like more regulations to regulate other people; others are comfortable with less.

I always have current charts but I don't see any particular reason why a pilot flying a 172 over a route that he knows like the back of his hand for the umpteen millionth time without incident should be busted on a ramp check because the sectional under his seat hasn't been opened or replaced in years. Apparently you do.
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:yeahthat:

-mini
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
What can I say. Some people like more regulations to regulate other people; others are comfortable with less.

I always have current charts but I don't see any particular reason why a pilot flying a 172 over a route that he knows like the back of his hand for the umpteen millionth time without incident should be busted on a ramp check because the sectional under his seat hasn't been opened or replaced in years. Apparently you do.
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well i know there are two sides to every story. i have had to be vectored off an approach because some weekend warrior got confused about where the bravo started. im not one for more regulations but ignorance and neglegence make me want to wring someones neck and push for some change. i am guilty of not having new sectionals or charts when i was flying in the same area everyday for almost a year. after awhile you just know where to go and what to avoid. is it safe? is it smart? is it an easy thing for the faa to bust you on? the rules we have in place seem childish sometimes but it usually means some poor sap screwed it up and we all now have to pay for it.
 
Funny but if you got to the FAA/NACO website...
What is the FAA policy for carrying current charts?

The term "charts" is not found in the FAA's Part 91 regulations (other than for large and turbine-powered multiengine airplanes in 91.503[a]). The specific FAA regulation, FAR 91.103 "Preflight Actions," states that each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. What is not specifically addressed in the regulation is a requirement for charts. You should always carry a current chart for safety's sake. An expired chart will not show new frequencies or newly constructed obstructions, some of which could be tall enough to be a hazard along your route of flight.

  • The only FAA/FAR requirements that pertain to charts are:
  • Title 14 CFR section 91.503[a] (Large and Turbojet powered aircraft)
  • Title 14 CFR section 135.83 (Air Carriers-Little Airplane)
  • Title 14 CFR section 121.549 (Air Carrier-Big Airplanes)

  1. The FAA has rendered interpretations that have stated the foregoing. The subject of current charts was thoroughly covered in an article in the FAA's July/August 1997 issue of FAA Aviation News. That article was cleared through the FAA's Chief Counsel's office. In that article the FAA stated the following:
  2. "You can carry old charts in your aircraft." "It is not FAA policy to violate anyone for having outdated charts in the aircraft."
  3. "Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."
  4. ..."since some pilots thought they could be violated for having outdated or no charts on board during a flight, we need to clarify an important issue. As we have said, it is NOT FAA policy to initiate enforcement action against a pilot for having an old chart on board or no chart on board." That's because there is no regulation on the issue.
  5. ..."the issue of current chart data bases in handheld GPS receivers is a non-issue because the units are neither approved by the FAA or required for flight, nor do panel-mounted VFR-only GPS receivers have to have a current data base because, like handheld GPS receivers, the pilot is responsible for pilotage under VFR.
  6. "If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
If you, as an FAA Safety Inspector, Designated Pilot Examiner, Flight Instructor, or other aviation professional are telling pilots something other than the foregoing then you are incorrect.
 
mjg407 said:
"If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
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Therefore,

Here's how it is: As long as you don't ever need them, you are not required to have them. The second you need a chart and don't have it, you are in violation of 91.103, and 91.13.
Click to expand...
 
ok there is always going to be someone or something that screws it all up. as a general observation if you have current materials and review them before you go up you are less likely to get caught off guard and make mistakes. we all have stories of someone that always did everything by the book and unfortunatlely busted airspace, violated, etc. we are all not perfect and we do make mistakes. just prepare yourself so that the chances of mistakes are few and far between.
 
amorris311 said:
well i know there are two sides to every story. i have had to be vectored off an approach because some weekend warrior got confused about where the bravo started. im not one for more regulations but ignorance and neglegence make me want to wring someones neck and push for some change. i am guilty of not having new sectionals or charts when i was flying in the same area everyday for almost a year. after awhile you just know where to go and what to avoid. is it safe? is it smart? is it an easy thing for the faa to bust you on? the rules we have in place seem childish sometimes but it usually means some poor sap screwed it up and we all now have to pay for it.
Click to expand...

I wish there was a regulation requiring the first letter of a new sentence to be capitalized.
 
amorris311 said:
i have had to be vectored off an approach because some weekend warrior got confused about where the bravo started.
Click to expand...
??...but..do you really think that guy would have been more aware if there were a specific regulation requiring a current chart aboard the aircraft..?...really..?:confused:
 
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