Veteran contemplating life decisions

[g_mau18]

Hello everybody,
I am getting out of the military with post 9/11 gi bill benefits. I recently earned my ppl and am really looking into doing this for real. It is a tough decision thinking about which institution to spend my hard earned gi bill at. Erau, asu, und. The main thing is that I'm covered 100% so no worrying about paying off huge loans. I would really appreciate any advice you guys who have been there, done that can give me. Thank you.

 

[Zidac]

Hello everybody,
I am getting out of the military with post 9/11 gi bill benefits. I recently earned my ppl and am really looking into doing this for real. It is a tough decision thinking about which institution to spend my hard earned gi bill at. Erau, asu, und. The main thing is that I'm covered 100% so no worrying about paying off huge loans. I would really appreciate any advice you guys who have been there, done that can give me. Thank you.

Hey,

There's a few important things to be aware of. The GI Bill pays 100% of in-state tuition and fees (including flight fees) at public schools. However, this does not apply to private schools like ERAU. The GI Bill is capped at $17,500 per year for private schools. Although the Yellow Ribbon program would allow for an additional $15,250.00 yearly contribution at ERAU, you would still be owing a lot of money out of pocket. (Probably at least $40,000.)

Your best bet is to find a public school with a flight program at the in-state tuition rate. I decided to go with UND since they give veterans in-state tuition... meaning it will be 100% covered.

 

[JDean3204]

Definitely do your homework before making a choice. ERAU is not a feasible option unless you want to pay the difference, which will be more than most programs with out assistance. ASU is a program I am looking into myself as it is in Arizona with good year around weather, they have a new contract with ATP that one way or another cover's veterans under ch.33 benefits. I am not familiar with UND at all since I know my wife would not be happy if I told her we were moving to North Dakota...

There are many other options out there, such as two year programs where you can get all your licenses and certs within 24 months while earning an associates degree, after that you can use your remaining benefits towards a degree of your choice. However, be aware many four year schools give minimal credit for a two year flight degree. I am currently in a two year program in Oregon, it has been an awesome experience thus far, my only concern is finishing each license in time to complete the degree within the time allotted. Since you already have you ppl, you may want to look into which program will accept that license for credit in the flight degree/program.

 

[g_mau18]

Thanks for the replies so far. Ok, forget ERAU, didnt want to go there anyway after reading about the lack of quality female specimens in attendance. I really do not want to go to somewhere cold either bein from Hawaii. I called up ASU and they said it was 100% covered.

Jdean, you bring up a pretty awesome point, What your saying is that I can use the GI bill to pay for an associates in flight, with all my flight costs covered, and still use the gi bill to go somewhere else afterwards to obtain a bachelors?? I still have a year and a half left in the military, Im saving all my money and taking college courses like mad. What kind of experience and ratings can you get at a 2 year flight program. I know what you mean, it could be a lot to cram into 24 months. I know ASU accepts PPL's but nothing past that. AAAGGHH decisions, decisions. I really do want to take peoples advice and get a degree in something other than aviation, but it seems as though the flight costs need to be associated with the degree to be paid for under the gi Bill.

Would 36 months of Gi bill benefits be enough to do the 2 year flight program and get a bachelors somewhere else? I doubt it. This whole college/ university thing is still confusing me, I joined up straight outta high school.

 

[JDean3204]

Thanks for the replies so far. Ok, forget ERAU, didnt want to go there anyway after reading about the lack of quality female specimens in attendance. I really do not want to go to somewhere cold either bein from Hawaii. I called up ASU and they said it was 100% covered.

Jdean, you bring up a pretty awesome point, What your saying is that I can use the GI bill to pay for an associates in flight, with all my flight costs covered, and still use the gi bill to go somewhere else afterwards to obtain a bachelors?? I still have a year and a half left in the military, Im saving all my money and taking college courses like mad. What kind of experience and ratings can you get at a 2 year flight program. I know what you mean, it could be a lot to cram into 24 months. I know ASU accepts PPL's but nothing past that. AAAGGHH decisions, decisions. I really do want to take peoples advice and get a degree in something other than aviation, but it seems as though the flight costs need to be associated with the degree to be paid for under the gi Bill.

Would 36 months of Gi bill benefits be enough to do the 2 year flight program and get a bachelors somewhere else? I doubt it. This whole college/ university thing is still confusing me, I joined up straight outta high school.

A two year program can be completed in 18 months if you go all year around full time, it takes a ton of concentration and work to balance school/flight and anything else. I am just now starting to get used to being a full time college student and it is my third term. The program I am enrolled in will take me all the way through MEI by the end of the program, providing I accumulate the times and pass the checkrides in a timely manner. I had zero hours in April when I started, now I am working on IR and CSEL simultaneously in my third term. So it moves quick, and at times I feel overwhelmed, especially when checkrides and finals are around the same time. I will probably transfer my degree to some sort of management degree at a university where I may pay 5-10K to finish up after my benefits are diminished, but that beats 50 plus thousand in debt without the benefits.

In your situation, I am sure it is a no brainer. If ASU is covered 100 percent for you, DO IT! Especially if you have another year and a half left before your EAOS, that gives the school time to work the kinks out of the VA billing system before you are on board. And from what I heard, you will not be disappointed by the females in attendance at ASU.... Just make sure that you plan appropriately and start saving now for the transition out of the military, then you will be set. If you play your cards right, you will walk away with a four year degree ( all be it an aviation degree ) and all of your certs while gaining the college experience at a well known school. Just don't party too much to the point where your studies slack, the VA will make you pay them back if you fail or do not complete a course/certification.

I am still on the fence about going to ASU, I just moved to Oregon this year and my wife and I are doing ok for ourselves up here. I just do not like the weather during the winter, it does not allow me to accrue my hours very quickly even though I have the funds available.

Hope this helps man
James

 

[flyinggreasemnky]

Western Michigan is an option as they will give you credit for your PPL (they just make you do a couple of flights to prove you are proficient). It has a pretty good ratio as far as women go and is a public university but it definitely doesn't have anything on ASU. The number one detractor there is obviously it gets cold and snow which ASU doesn't so it depends on the type of climate you are used too. If you had to pay out of your own pocket, I wouldn't recommend going there as the prices have really gotten out of hand there since I left.

 

[TC_ABM]

Hello everybody,
I am getting out of the military with post 9/11 gi bill benefits. I recently earned my ppl and am really looking into doing this for real. It is a tough decision thinking about which institution to spend my hard earned gi bill at. Erau, asu, und. The main thing is that I'm covered 100% so no worrying about paying off huge loans. I would really appreciate any advice you guys who have been there, done that can give me. Thank you.

If you didn't join/separate in Texas, this won't apply.

If you did then you should be eligible for benefits under the Hazelwood Act in addition to Post 9/11 GI Bill. As an example, you could begin your Associates at, say, CTC Killeen using GI Bill to pay tuition/fees. That part shouldn't take 24 of your 36 GI bill months up, but it might. Using the remaiing GI Bill, you can then transfer to another public Texas University (with your tickets done). Then, go across the street to Texas A&M-Central Texas and finish off with a Bachelor of Airway Science (with a diploma from Texas A&M), or another program if you desire. You can continue to use GI Bill for this until you exhaust it. Once GI Bill is exhuasted, the Hazelwood benefit kicks in. Hazelwood will exempt you from tuition costs for up to 150 credit hours as long as you don't have a Bachelor's degree and you're on a degree plan.

If you've already got a certificate and/or time built up, CTC can enroll you at an 'advanced' level, essentially credit you for the semester hours for your experience. This should cut at least one semester off your AAS plan.

I'm looking at this option since I'm at Ft Hood right now. For other reasons, it'll be mostly out-of-pocket for me unless I take their certificate option and can use TA for the one-time life time certification now that flight training (at a 141 school) is authorized for that.

PM me if you want more details. I don't have them all, but I can get you in touch with the dudes that run that program.

 

[jskibo]

If you didn't join/separate in Texas, this won't apply.

If you did then you should be eligible for benefits under the Hazelwood Act in addition to Post 9/11 GI Bill. As an example, you could begin your Associates at, say, CTC Killeen using GI Bill to pay tuition/fees. That part shouldn't take 24 of your 36 GI bill months up, but it might. Using the remaiing GI Bill, you can then transfer to another public Texas University (with your tickets done). Then, go across the street to Texas A&M-Central Texas and finish off with a Bachelor of Airway Science (with a diploma from Texas A&M), or another program if you desire. You can continue to use GI Bill for this until you exhaust it. Once GI Bill is exhuasted, the Hazelwood benefit kicks in. Hazelwood will exempt you from tuition costs for up to 150 credit hours as long as you don't have a Bachelor's degree and you're on a degree plan.

If you've already got a certificate and/or time built up, CTC can enroll you at an 'advanced' level, essentially credit you for the semester hours for your experience. This should cut at least one semester off your AAS plan.

I'm looking at this option since I'm at Ft Hood right now. For other reasons, it'll be mostly out-of-pocket for me unless I take their certificate option and can use TA for the one-time life time certification now that flight training (at a 141 school) is authorized for that.

PM me if you want more details. I don't have them all, but I can get you in touch with the dudes that run that program.

And for those of you that Entered and Separated in Illinois, the Illinois Veterans Grant does the same thing!

 

[Websterpilot]

I'm not sure if you came across Bridgewater State University in Massachusetts during your search? It is a public university that has a 4 year part 141 aviation program that would qualify for the post 9/11 GI Bill. I know a couple people that went through the program, as well as several CFI's that currently work there. Everyone has seemed positive about their experience with the program.

However, I agree that if you can make a 2 year program work, it may be a better option. I say this, because you should really look into getting all of your certificates and ratings, but find a way that you can earn your bachelor's degree in a non-aviation related field after you transfer with your associates.

An aviation degree is not a good backup in the event you lose your medical or get furloughed. Most aviation related jobs that require a degree only care that you have "a" degree and one in aviation won't really give you an edge. Your going to want something you can fall back on. Some of the best advice I ever got about flying for a living: "You fly when you can and when you can't; do something else until you can fly again!" It's just the mentality you have to take in this industry.

 

[Websterpilot]

Also, make sure you budget extra time due to weather and other unforeseen circumstances. It's a lot to cover in a short period of time. I graduated from a part 141 college where the average person took 5 years instead of the standard 4 to finish the program.

 

[g_mau18]

Thanks everyone for the replies, much appreciated. If I end up choosing the aviation route, I am certain it will be ASU. After another post in the "career changes", I found out how crappy the lifestyle of a pilot is. I want to tell myself that they're exaggerating how miserable it is, but if it really is that bad how much do I want it? Its such a tough decision.

 

[TC_ABM]

... I found out how crappy the lifestyle of a pilot is. I want to tell myself that they're exaggerating how miserable it is....

Misery is in the eye of the beholder, and the internet certainly gives a perfect outlet for people to vent. One thing to ask yourself is how much passion/desire do you have to fly as a career vs fly as a hobby. Flyinig as a career has a lot of options, and different ways to get there. I think you have to have the passion and long-term vision to help you get past the days that aren't so good. But that's no different than anything else you'll do in life.

When I first began thinking about what I wanted to do with my certificates, I sought ought the advice of guys like MikeD (military background now flying for federal law enforcement). That input gave me a solide idea of how I could use my investment of time and money to develop a career for me.

 

[elitehelipilot]

Have you considered coming to the Helicopter side of the world? What can I do to convince you!

Seriously though, make sure you pay special attention to Community Colleges and Public Universities. The changes that were made to the Post 9/11 GI Bill a few years ago make it so flight dollars are capped at $10,000 p/ year at private universities like ERAU. On the other hand, if you go through a public institution, like I'm at Big Bend Community College, the flight funds are UNLIMITED.

*cough* we have an AWESOME helicopter program fyi...

 

[elitehelipilot]

Hey I just noticed the ERAU "debt" posts above. They Yellow Ribbon Program at ERAU paid the entire difference between the highest In-State (ASU in Phoenix) and the ERAU amount. I had $0 owed to ERAU at any one point. Housing on campus was pretty affordable but ate the entire BAH payment. ERAU is a viable option, for airplane guys I think...how much can you guys train on $10k a year? That won't even pay for a PPL in Helicopters...

 

[Bushmaster78FS]

Thanks everyone for the replies, much appreciated. If I end up choosing the aviation route, I am certain it will be ASU. After another post in the "career changes", I found out how crappy the lifestyle of a pilot is. I want to tell myself that they're exaggerating how miserable it is, but if it really is that bad how much do I want it? Its such a tough decision.

Hit me up, I will connect you with the right people, I am at ASU right now, they switched to ATP as their provider from Mesa Pilot Development.

On the other hand, it is true that you won't be making 50-60K in your first few years. If it is money you want, this is not the career field to start with unless you want to go military flying route. I made 60K as a WO1 in the Army. After ASU, it will be a huge paycut when I start instructing. We all know this going in, yet we still do, why?

Sent from my iPad 3

 

[elitehelipilot]

For the love of flight. I accept Ramen and 80 hour weeks...

 

[///AMG]

If I were in your shoes, I'd use that good money from the post-9/11 GI bill to buy a good 4 year education and set myself up for future success. You could fly, or you could not, but you would have two awesome stepping stones for whatever it was you chose to do........real life experience in the military, and a college degree that will be recognized by future employers. You can learn to fly and get into the business later on......I knew several folks in my civilian flight training days who came from similar backgrounds as you, got useful degrees after getting out, and worked good jobs to slowly support them getting into the industry, while doing flight school on the side (and not eating ramen 3 meals a day). A few of them are flying for the majors now, so their persistence over time, and networking skills evidently paid off. I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue a flight program, but I really do feel that a bachelors should be a starting point that you owe to yourself. Just playing a bit of devils advocate, but that is exactly what I would tell each and every one of my sailors if they posed the same question to me.

 

[jskibo]

Just playing a bit of devils advocate, but that is exactly what I would tell each and every one of my sailors if they posed the same question to me.

You're such a good JO....

 

[elitehelipilot]

On the other side of the token, getting a degree is not an easy-pass onto an income or career, and certainly not a measure of success or ones ability to be successful. There are a lot of brilliant entrepreneurs out there that made a life for themselves with having ever gone to college. Now, I won't say a Bachelors degree isn't worth the time or effort - I will say that if you don't want one, don't waste your time getting one. Because at the end of four years you'll have a degree, but without passion that won't mean a thing. If you JUST want to fly - use you Post 9/11 for that training, get all your certs done from PPL to CFII and get to work flying. To break into in big time flight jobs you're gonna need a solid foundation of hours (Read: No less than 1000 hours these days) and the only way to get those are to start logging them, one at a time.

Now, personally that's sort of what I did. I used my Post 9/11 benefits to pay for my flight training because that is what I was passionate about, and what I wanted to be doing. Now I'm using what's left over to go after a degree, but only because I know that down the road I'll need it to be eligible for most upper level positions. It's not gonna pay for the full four years, but schools like American Military University (AMU) are really affordable for us vets. And that's just one option out there.

You see, I'm in no hurry to get my degree, so I can afford to take it slow, and earn one over time while I work as a pilot. It'll happen, but having served in the military, gone to flight school, it goes without saying I'm considered a "non-traditional" student and it's true. I have an education plan in place for my BS and my MBA - when I get them I get them.

I was never one to subscribe to the completely false notion of a lifetimeline being the way to live. It's more a way to die...
Be born > Go to school > Go to college, get a degree > Entry level start to a career > Promoted > Retire > Die

My life plan is more like
Be born > Be Awesome > Retire Young > Live forever

 

[Zidac]

If you JUST want to fly - use you Post 9/11 for that training, get all your certs done from PPL to CFII and get to work flying.

Maybe I misunderstood, but are you suggesting that one should just use the non-IHL flight training option? I don't think that's a good option for anyone, regardless of their academic aspirations. How would one use the Post 9/11 GI Bill for non-IHL flight training through CFII with the $10,000 annual cap for three years? That would deplete the benefits while only paying for about half of the ratings. It's my understanding that PPL isn't even covered if one were to go this route. Using the GI Bill for a 2 year aviation program at a community college would make more sense to me.

It's not gonna pay for the full four years, but schools like American Military University (AMU) are really affordable for us vets. And that's just one option out there.

I certainly mean no offense, but degrees from for-profit schools like AMU are typically even less marketable than the much maligned "aeronautical science" degree that people love to hate on here. If you're just looking to "check a box," I understand. I still don't think it's a good option, especially when reputable non-profit schools are catching up with offering more flexible degree programs.