VERY scary stuff; runway incursion

E_Dawg

Moderator
Dunno... I downloaded it and it'll run a flash program. It's very good, and it didn't set my virus protection off at all; it's produced by FSI so it's legit, though the link is obviously from a 3rd party.
 

JDMcFly

New Member
props to the US2998 for sayin' 'we're stayin clear till it's all figured out' after they were cleared for t/o

Really bad miscommunication in a blink. United said he was on 23R (then said a few seconds later 23L) and the tower never heard the 23L... Then it was kinda crazy.. Wow.

It is pretty scary, and a few seconds difference in events could have put two planes together.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Yeah. The tower handled it very poorly in my opinion; she had a lost aircraft and was trying to get US2998 to depart so she wouldn't have to deal with it; great decision making by the PIC of the US2998; saved many, many lives.
 

Rodelu

Well-Known Member
Frightening!!!
Made me remember Tenerife, (Canary Islands) 1978 accident. (The worst in history)
 

Boltonpilot

New Member
I'm not sure why the UAL 757 didn't see the directional sign at the intersection for Bravo. I'm sure this is one of those situations where you had to be in the cockpit to understand fully just why the United jet was confused and made a wrong turn. That would really scare the hell out of me if I saw a 727 take off just in front of my nose!
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Well, sounds like they were pretty bogged down with poor visibility, but that's just a guess.


There were a few mistakes made that way, and luckily it didn't turn out horrible.
 

Joe

Well-Known Member
Hey hey, that's my airport! That could have been very, very bad. Here is a link to another simulation of what happened:

PVD Animation (Real Video, 6.4 MB)


I see that FedEx jet parked all the time; it's the only 727 we get any more since United retired them in 2001.
 

albatross

New Member
Very, very interesting. Too bad the controller just wasn't getting that the United was on the active runway. If I were the captain, after having peed myself, I don't think I would have been nearly as polite about communicating that someone had just taken off right in front of me.

I wonder if infra-red binoculars would have helped the situation... is something like this being considered?
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Man, listening to it again, the tower really lost control there.

United was tryin' to explain that they were on the active and she just kept tellin him to standby and trying to get the USAir outa there.

So the first mistake was united going the wrong way, the secone being a complete controller meltdown..

Again, props to the US Captain for staying still after two takeoff clearances.
 

montana

New Member
ya, thank god for pic principles. every new private student should have to watch that presentation to show them how important it is to understand that YOU are the one in control of that plane, not ATC.
 

Adam

New Member
Ohh man that could have been very bad, scary stuff, all it takes is one person to make a mistake and its all over
 

H46Bubba

Well-Known Member
Very chilling! Could have ended up really bad. Props to the USAir 2298 Captain for not accepting the take off clearance from the tower. The tower controller was letting the situation take control of her actions, vice her controlling the situation. It sounded as if the female pilot on the United 757 had more situational awareness and control than her counterpart in the cockpit. They were obviously able to see all signs from the runway, but why couldn't they see the ones on taxiway November? Were they taxing too fast for the conditions? Did they utilize the runway diagram on the approach plates? The other aircaft taxing around the field didn't have problems seeing the signs, especially the USAir flight that had just arrived, and used the same taxiways that the UAL 757 was to use. If they really couldn't see the signs, couldn't they have asked for a progressive taxi or a "follow me" truck.
 
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