"Verify information ...."

Landis

Landis

Well-Known Member
Long time lurker/first time poster

I've been flying at an airport for about 1500 hours now and something that happens more often than not has me wondering what the controllers expect (guess I should just ask them)....

On initial check in I will include the fact that I have the ATIS by inserting the letter or "information" and the letter. Something like, "ready to taxi with Romeo" or "ready to taxi with information Romeo." Nine times out of ten I get the clearance with a "verify information Romeo" appended.

Is there something I specifically need to say differently than I have been and they're prodding me for the recording? Or do controllers just routinely miss that bit of information. Happens with me, with my students, with numerous other pilots - so I know it isn't just me mumbling. They get the rest of the request. Also happens at other airports in the area so I'm not singling out controllers at my airport.

Any ideas?
 
I've wondered that as well because I make it a point to tell them the ATIS info so there is no need for extra congestion on the radio but I still get the "Verify ATIS..." bit.
 
I would suspect it is habit on their part more than anything. Part of their phraseology because it 50/50 with aircraft checking in with it and they weren't paying complete attention to the initial call-up.

Heck on approach sometimes I give my spiel and throw a "information alph....and you checked in with it" on the end, it is just habit.
 
Landis said:
Long time lurker/first time poster

I've been flying at an airport for about 1500 hours now and something that happens more often than not has me wondering what the controllers expect (guess I should just ask them)....

On initial check in I will include the fact that I have the ATIS by inserting the letter or "information" and the letter. Something like, "ready to taxi with Romeo" or "ready to taxi with information Romeo." Nine times out of ten I get the clearance with a "verify information Romeo" appended.

Is there something I specifically need to say differently than I have been and they're prodding me for the recording? Or do controllers just routinely miss that bit of information. Happens with me, with my students, with numerous other pilots - so I know it isn't just me mumbling. They get the rest of the request. Also happens at other airports in the area so I'm not singling out controllers at my airport.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Close thread here, and very recent:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/pilot-controller-questions/100060-giving-atis-code-before-taxi.html
 
the FAA is a CYA environment.

accidents are a knee-jerk reaction type of incident. there could've been a controller that got blamed for an incident/accident/error that was totally the pilots fault...but because the controller didn't verify the pilot had the ATIS, the lawyer was able to prove liability on the FAA/controller because they didn't do something that was required, but irrelevant to the cause of such incident/accident/error.

it's a running dialog that anytime an aircraft declares an emergency, has an incident, has an accident, or just plain does something stupid...we re-issue the ATIS.

the verification could be regardless of whether or not u checked on with the correct ATIS. it could just be that time of the year where something happened and everyone is on edge about being blamed for a pilot error. that's the way of the FAA in the controller world.

ie.
pilot: approach, N123, with you 14000
ATC: N123, approach, fly heading 230, vector visual approach rwy 31

pilot: (screwing off, crashes, dies)

lawyer (to ATC):why didn't u verify he had the ATIS? are you not required to verify the receipt of such ATIS?
ATC: yes
lawyer (to ATC): it's all your fault that the pilot crashed because he didn't have the ATIS
ATC: ummmm.... ("thinking"...i'm pretty sure that pilot was just an idiot)

FAA: yes it is 100% the fault of the controller and we will pay $9,000,000 to the family of the pilot because we did not verify the pilot had information romeo.
 
Juliet Lima said:
the FAA is a CYA environment.

accidents are a knee-jerk reaction type of incident. there could've been a controller that got blamed for an incident/accident/error that was totally the pilots fault...but because the controller didn't verify the pilot had the ATIS, the lawyer was able to prove liability on the FAA/controller because they didn't do something that was required, but irrelevant to the cause of such incident/accident/error.

it's a running dialog that anytime an aircraft declares an emergency, has an incident, has an accident, or just plain does something stupid...we re-issue the ATIS.

the verification could be regardless of whether or not u checked on with the correct ATIS. it could just be that time of the year where something happened and everyone is on edge about being blamed for a pilot error. that's the way of the FAA in the controller world.

ie.
pilot: approach, N123, with you 14000
ATC: N123, approach, fly heading 230, vector visual approach rwy 31

pilot: (screwing off, crashes, dies)

lawyer (to ATC):why didn't u verify he had the ATIS? are you not required to verify the receipt of such ATIS?
ATC: yes
lawyer (to ATC): it's all your fault that the pilot crashed because he didn't have the ATIS
ATC: ummmm.... ("thinking"...i'm pretty sure that pilot was just an idiot)

FAA: yes it is 100% the fault of the controller and we will pay $9,000,000 to the family of the pilot because we did not verify the pilot had information romeo.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I could see that situation happening with the result you describe, as a complete reality with zero embellishment.
 
Juliet Lima said:
the FAA is a CYA environment.
Click to expand...

Thanks JL, that makes total sense (unfortunately).

I was really just wondering if there's a standard phraseology that I'm not saying and I need to have the exact words on the tape or the controller will get blamed.

Much as I've discovered when using the word "separation".

"Traffic at your 3 o'clock"
"Contact, I'll maintain visual" <- not enough, I have to add the word "separation"

I'm already used to repeating the ATIS code every time, so I guess that's where it will stand.
 
Landis said:
Thanks JL, that makes total sense (unfortunately).

I was really just wondering if there's a standard phraseology that I'm not saying and I need to have the exact words on the tape or the controller will get blamed.

Much as I've discovered when using the word "separation".

"Traffic at your 3 o'clock"
"Contact, I'll maintain visual" <- not enough, I have to add the word "separation"

I'm already used to repeating the ATIS code every time, so I guess that's where it will stand.
Click to expand...


That's why I love when pilots reply "wilco" to visual separation instructions. I feel like an idiot repeating myself because they didn't add on "separation" in the readback. I know what you mean, you know I know what you mean and yet I've got to clog up the airways because lawyers have their tentacles in everything.
 
it's definitely a controller thing. u checking on with "Alpha" is all we need from you. controllers sometimes don't hear it, or worse, don't listen to your check-on and find it easier to verify it. that's a crutch on the controllers part...not u as a pilot.
 
You could always fly out of a towered field that doesn't have ATIS :p

Solves the problem right there.
 
9 times out of 10 is pretty wild. Most people miss one out of maybe fifteen. Normally the controller misses it when someone on another frequency checks in at the same time or someone is verbally coordinating something with them. My personal record is 6 frequencies and 2 landlines in my ear at the same time :dunno:. What are the odds.
 
genot said:
9 times out of 10 is pretty wild. Most people miss one out of maybe fifteen.
Click to expand...
I swear it's not an exaggeration. My father told me a million times not to exaggerate.

I really did wonder if they needed something different on the recording. But I'm OK with repeating it every time, I was just wondering why and I think this thread cleared it up. Thanks all!
 
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