UUUUUGHHHHHH today was a huge mess

ZUKO

Well-Known Member
I went out to the airport to finally complete 13 so I could be put in for my stage 14. My instructor called me saying he was going to be late. No big deal. He showed up 15 minutes before showtime(15 minutes or so late). I was ready to go with everything done.

We start taxing and everything goes fine when all of a sudden I hear the engine blade make this loud noise. Our engine blade ripped right through that orange cone. Neither my instructor nor me saw it but we taxied right into those orange cones they have to cover bumps. My instructor and I both look at each other. And my instructor kind of panics and tells me to continue taxing. We continue taxing to the UND run up area where he tells me he is trying to figure out what to do. I told him that we should go back and check out the plane etc. He was like the problem with that was that we will have to reschedule. As we start to do the run up, I told him that we need to go back and I do not want to fly when the plane could be damaged. I told him that its better to not fly today then never fly again. He finally agreed and he tells me he is busy tommorow and the rest of the day today and that we will try to get up sometime early next week. And that this was both of our fauilts yadayada yada. I kept my moulth shut. When we get back to the ramp, he tells me that we are going to fill out some OAH form but he is going to write that we "might have hit the cone." When we clearly sliced right through it. He then sat me down in his office and asked if I had any questions. He sent me home with out signing anything and he went and saw his lead. He told me he would call me after he talked to his lead to reschedule. Still no call.

WHAT THE 8*((&&*(?

This bothered the hell out of me. First of all, I am paying a ton of money to be "getting the best training possible." It is his responsible to make corrective actions if something like this is about to happen. He should of saw the cone. I understand people make mistakes but its how he dealt with it that bothered me. The fact that he wanted to continue to fly after we hit something with out checking the plane out or anything. What kind of Aeronautical Decision making is that? Do I really want some instructor that doesnt put safety a first priority or who will not fully tell the truth on some und report to cover his ass. He never once apologized and handled this poorly.

So now after a month break in flying due to winter break, Getting weathered, and a review flight, and then weathered and hitting a cone, I am going another week with out flying.

This is not what I expected when I came from Seattle to North Dakota. I expected flying 3 times a week. And do not tell me I havent been proactive enough. I have called my instructors lead and the course manager and they are in the long process of getting me my instructor. I think I am going to call my instructors lead and tell him that I dont want to fly with this instructor anymore after todays incident.

Today put me over the edge.
 
I saw the cones marking the hole you are talking about when I observed Venezuelana's flight this afternoon. Kinda in a tricky position because you can't taxi through that area but you have to go all the way around to avoid the cones. It was a wise decision to come back rather than completing your flight. Seems like you are smarter than your instructor when it comes to safety. It was stupid he argued with you.
 
Was your instructor taxiing?


I was taxing. The cone was not visible under us and it was right below us about 25 feet away from where we started the propeller. Its his responsible. He is the PIC and my flight instructor. I understand mistakes happen but I didnt like the way he handled it and now I have to wait around wasting my life away NOT FLYING in North Dakota.
 
I saw the cones marking the hole you are talking about when I observed Venezuelana's flight this afternoon. Kinda in a tricky position because you can't taxi through that area but you have to go all the way around to avoid the cones. It was a wise decision to come back rather than completing your flight. Seems like you are smarter than your instructor when it comes to safety. It was stupid he argued with you.

He didnt really argue with me but the fact that he couldnt decide between FLYING and NOT FLYING after what happened is flat out scary.
 
Well he is human, I hope he kinda realize and understands the situation. How was the prop, I am very curious how it fared after hitting the cones.
 
Just because that one instructor was thinking of still flying doesn't mean that all UND instructors would make that desicion. I know you are dealing with a lot but just keep plugging away and you will get there.
 
"I was taxing"

"Its his responsible. He is the PIC and my flight instructor"

So, it was your CFI's fault you taxied into cone?

Kinda lame if you ask me.

Your CFI is ultimately responsible but he wasn't the one that taxied into the cone. Taking some personal responsibility for your actions would be a wise move.
 
I am not sure. The leading ends looked a little scratched up but I didnt get a good look at it. He looked at it while I secured the flight controls. He wanted to take off the minute I got out of the plane, and I barely got a view of it. It was Sioux 76.

Well he is human, I hope he kinda realize and understands the situation. How was the prop, I am very curious how it fared after hitting the cones.

Yeah I know all UND instructors wouldnt have made that decision. This is just the icing on the cake. I have been thinking about leaving for an FBO with all year around flying weather for a while. Before this flight my mind wasnt completely made up but I was pretty sure I was leaving. And I am still 99 percent sure I am leaving.

It is not that UND is a bad school. Its just A) There isnt nearly as much flying as I thought. Weather and college breaks will delay your training too much. B) I can do my training at a much faster pace somewhere else and fly 5+ times a week and be a CFI with in a year.
Just because that one instructor was thinking of still flying doesn't mean that all UND instructors would make that desicion. I know you are dealing with a lot but just keep plugging away and you will get there.
 
"I was taxing"

"Its his responsible. He is the PIC and my flight instructor"

So, it was your CFI's fault you taxied into cone?

Kinda lame if you ask me.

Your CFI is ultimately responsible but he wasn't the one that taxied into the cone. Taking some personal responsibility for your actions would be a wise move.

Let me describe what happened more clearly. The cone was likely in our blind spot below us. I turned on the center line like he told me. Boom I hit a cone. No one saw it or anything. I followed the directions he told me. I am a student pilot. Thats not why I am upset. I was upset he thought about flying. And I am upset he was not going to tell the whole truth and just looked out for his own butt.

I think I may need to draw a picture but it would be hard because it would need to be completely 3 dimensional.

Imagine you are sitting at the edge of a ramp with a row of Warriors.
Below you, but you cant see it for some reasons lies a cone. The center line is half way between you and the center line to taxi onto the taxi ways to the runways. I headed to the center line and immediately we hear the cone.

As Pilot in command he is the final authority to the operation of the aircraft. As Flight instructor he is suppose to make corrective actions to keep things like happening.

Yes, if we are not talking in FAA terms, I am partially at fauilt, but he takes on more responsibility because he is the instructor and in charge of our safety.

Explain to me how I am wrong. I am here to learn. After we taxied into a a cone, he should of immediately took over controls and turned us around, headed back to the ramp and inspected the cone. We then should of debriefed and talked about how we could of avoided this from happening again. He should of apologized too me for not seeing the cone to take actions to prevent me from hitting it and rescheduled me immediately.
 
couple things.

yeah, not good that he wanted to continue. thats a valid point.

BUT

quit trying to pawn off "oh its his fault" because no, its not. you were at the controls and you ran over a cone. thats pretty much all there is to it.

and anyway, its a cone, not a large cement block. yeah its a good idea to have the mechanics look at the prop/engine to make sure nothing got out of wack/unbalanced, etc but come on, its just a cone. its not the end of your/his flying career.
 
I am still amazed neither of us ever saw the thing. I am not sure if its visible. I wish I could of taken the plane back to the same spot and seen what we could of done to seen it besides taking note to it when we taxied the plane.

I can tell you one thing though, it wont ever happen again for either of us. Likely the best way for either one of us to learn.

I just didnt like the way he handled it.

The only reason I am saying that its his fauilt is because I thought flight instructors were responsible for all actions there student takes. In reality, I guess it is both our responsibilities and we are both at fauilt, but legally his. I am just frusterated with everything that has gone on to delay my training. And I am not one just to take the easy way out and blame everyone else for things I do.

couple things.

yeah, not good that he wanted to continue. thats a valid point.

BUT

quit trying to pawn off "oh its his fault" because no, its not. you were at the controls and you ran over a cone. thats pretty much all there is to it.

and anyway, its a cone, not a large cement block. yeah its a good idea to have the mechanics look at the prop/engine to make sure nothing got out of wack/unbalanced, etc but come on, its just a cone. its not the end of your/his flying career.
 
.......
.....As Pilot in command he is the final authority to the operation of the aircraft. As Flight instructor he is suppose to make corrective actions to keep things like happening......Yes, if we are not talking in FAA terms, I am partially at fauilt, but he takes on more responsibility because he is the instructor and in charge of our safety..........

Good to hear everything is o.k. and that you did not fly.

Now as to DE727's and others points, think about what they are saying. Suppose when you get to that first CFI, paying flying job. Could be a CFI gig, freight gig, or other 121 gig.

They may ask about any incidents. If you bring this one up and start saying it wasn't my fault, he was PIC, ...... It will appear that you may be pushing the blame....Once you get to a 2-pilot flying job, tickets are handed out in pairs. You won't be able to say...."he was pic...."

Yes, it will not ruin yours or his careers, just learn what you can from it and get right back out there on the horse.
 
"The only reason I am saying that its his fauilt is because I thought flight instructors were responsible for all actions there student takes"

He's responsible, however, YOU taxied into the cone. You should just own up to it instead of saying it was his fault. He's responsible but I hardly would say it was his fault if he wasn't the one taxiing the plane. But...anyway...

A cone isn't going to damage a prop. The key is if there was a loss of RPM. If not, it doesn't qualify as a prop strike.
 
Good to hear everything is o.k. and that you did not fly.

Now as to DE727's and others points, think about what they are saying. Suppose when you get to that first CFI, paying flying job. Could be a CFI gig, freight gig, or other 121 gig.

They may ask about any incidents. If you bring this one up and start saying it wasn't my fault, he was PIC, ...... It will appear that you may be pushing the blame....Once you get to a 2-pilot flying job, tickets are handed out in pairs. You won't be able to say...."he was pic...."

Yes, it will not ruin yours or his careers, just learn what you can from it and get right back out there on the horse.

Thanks Jep. I agree with what your saying. I was kind of in shock when it happened. I will always look for immediate taxi obstacles before entering a plane because of this. Best way to learn.
 
"The only reason I am saying that its his fauilt is because I thought flight instructors were responsible for all actions there student takes"

He's responsible, however, YOU taxied into the cone. You should just own up to it instead of saying it was his fault. He's responsible but I hardly would say it was his fault if he wasn't the one taxiing the plane. But...anyway...

A cone isn't going to damage a prop.

I see what your saying. I am surprised a Cone wouldnt damage a prop? I thought propellers were a lot more fragile considering we worry about bird strikes all the time.
 
I'd worry a lot more about a bird coming though the windscreen than hitting the prop. I saw what was left after a seagull went through a 172 windshield. It was gross but no humans got hurt. Hitting the prop? Again, you think a bird would cause a sudden stoppage or loss of RPM? I don't. That's the least of your worries.
 
I'd worry a lot more about a bird coming though the windscreen than hitting the prop. I saw what was left after a seagull went through a 172 windshield. It was gross but no humans got hurt. Hitting the prop? Again, you think a bird would cause a sudden stoppage or loss of RPM? I don't. That's the least of your worries.

Thats good to know. Would you have stopped and at least inspected the prop after mowing over a cone? So a cone could not damage the smoothness of the leading edge of the propeller?
 
I’m curious as to how this cone was in your blind spot some 20 feet away from where you started up? Taxing around from the back row on Charlie ramp can be tricky, but you just have to be careful (and Bravo ramp for that matter).

I don’t disagree that it was unprofessional of the instructor to have handled the situation the way that he did, but I’m glad that you voiced your intentions not to continue the flight.
 
"Would you have stopped and at least inspected the prop after mowing over a cone"

I would have stopped because that cone's there for a reason. I'd want to know what else might I have hit or run over. With no RPM drop and no damage to the prop, I'd press on. And, no, I don't think a plastic cone would damage the smoothness of the leading edge of a prop.
 
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