USS Shangri-La flight ops, 1969

MikeD

MikeD

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Some highlights:

-A-4 landing with a buddy store reel that couldn't be retracted (don't knw why it wasn't just jettisoned)

-If you look at the wake of the aircraft carrier behind the landing jets, there appears to be a periscope wake of a trailing submarine? Interesting plane guard......

 
I imagine the carrier is pulling a "sled" ...target for pilots strafing, dropping napalm, etc ...between launch/recovery operations, of course!
 
MikeD said:
Some highlights:

-A-4 landing with a buddy store reel that couldn't be retracted (don't knw why it wasn't just jettisoned)

-If you look at the wake of the aircraft carrier behind the landing jets, there appears to be a periscope wake of a trailing submarine? Interesting plane guard......

Click to expand...
F-8 nose wheel failure at 00:45.
 
rondebmar said:
I imagine the carrier is pulling a "sled" ...target for pilots strafing, dropping napalm, etc ...between launch/recovery operations, of course!
Click to expand...

Fair point! I had heard of those before now that you mention, just have never seen one in action.

Did you ever operate of that ship? Apparently, because it was a CVS, or anti-submarine warfare carrier, it had an A-4 squadron that was a VSF, or antisubmarine fighter squadron, in addition to its others. I guess at that time, before the "CV" concept, which combined strike and ASW into one aircraft carrier air wing, there were CVS carriers and CVA (attack) carriers. The CVAs had no ASW aircraft, and the CVSs had limited strike assets, or none. I don't know if the Shang was a CVS at the time this film was taken.....but I'm thinking maybe not, because I don't see any S-2 Tracker or other ASW assets.
 
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Cool history lesson! Thanks for sharing.... I'm trying to remember if the P2V Neptune (ASW before P-3) was the premiere ASW in the Navy.

Did A-4 perform ASW missions? I know they perform multipurpose roles, ASW not quite sure.


Found this great video... Pretty cool info on ASW.

 
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ScorpionStinger said:
Cool history lesson! Thanks for sharing.... I'm trying to remember if the P2V Neptune (ASW before P-3) was the premiere ASW in the Navy.

Did A-4 perform ASW missions? I know they perform multipurpose roles, ASW not quite sure.


Found this great video... Pretty cool info on ASW.
Click to expand...

The A-4 I think was the fighter protection for the CVS carrier.
 
ScorpionStinger said:
Cool history lesson! Thanks for sharing.... I'm trying to remember if the P2V Neptune (ASW before P-3) was the premiere ASW in the Navy.

Did A-4 perform ASW missions? I know they perform multipurpose roles, ASW not quite sure.


Found this great video... Pretty cool info on ASW.

Click to expand...
A-4's briefly served as day-fighters (no air to air radar) on Essex-class carriers. At this time, the S-2 was the primary carrier-based ASW aircraft while the P-2 performed ASW missions from land bases.

F-8's eventually took over fighter duties on CVS ships and A-4's were limited to attack roles.
 
The A-10 almost served as the A-4's replacement in the Navy. The problem they ran into was the carrier landing... However, as you can see from these official Fairchild Republic engineer drawings... they found the answer to the carrier's speed.

ScreenShot2013-12-25at100724AM_zps92e15553.png


ScreenShot2013-12-25at100742AM_zps01ab7af2.png
 
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MikeD said:
Fair point! I had heard of those before now that you mention, just have never seen one in action.

Did you ever operate of that ship? Apparently, because it was a CVS, or anti-submarine warfare carrier, it had an A-4 squadron that was a VSF, or antisubmarine fighter squadron, in addition to its others. I guess at that time, before the "CV" concept, which combined strike and ASW into one aircraft carrier air wing, there were CVS carriers and CVA (attack) carriers. The CVAs had no ASW aircraft, and the CVSs had limited strike assets, or none. I don't know if the Shang was a CVS at the time this film was taken.....but I'm thinking maybe not, because I don't see any S-2 Tracker or other ASW assets.
Click to expand...

She became a CVS in 1969 but was on Yankee Station in 1970 so she might never have really acted as a CVS before she was retired.

Regarding the A-4 trapping with the hose extended -
I'm guessing they experienced an electrical failure that prevented hose retraction, hose jettison, or buddy store jettison. Given the hose is designed to shear off, coming aboard would have been better than ejecting.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
She became a CVS in 1969 but was on Yankee Station in 1970 so she might never have really acted as a CVS before she was retired.

Regarding the A-4 trapping with the hose extended -
I'm guessing they experienced an electrical failure that prevented hose retraction, hose jettison, or buddy store jettison. Given the hose is designed to shear off, coming aboard would have been better than ejecting.
Click to expand...

Have those buddy store systems changed much over time? Or are they essentially much the same now as they were back then?

Was the S-3 like the KA-6, where the drogue wasn't an external store, but was "hard mounted", so to speak?
 
MikeD said:
Have those buddy store systems changed much over time? Or are they essentially much the same now as they were back then?

Was the S-3 like the KA-6, where the drogue wasn't an external store, but was "hard mounted", so to speak?
Click to expand...
No, you could dump the buddy stores.
 
MikeD said:
Have those buddy store systems changed much over time? Or are they essentially much the same now as they were back then?

Was the S-3 like the KA-6, where the drogue wasn't an external store, but was "hard mounted", so to speak?
Click to expand...
The S-3 was an external store only.
 
MikeD said:
Have those buddy store systems changed much over time? Or are they essentially much the same now as they were back then?
Click to expand...
Missed your first question -
Changes have been minor. The 31-30x was used in the S-3, as well as the A-4, A-6, A-7, and F-18. These things are pretty simple, a RAT driving a hydraulic pump, not much room for improvement. I think the SU-30 uses a version of the same model.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
I think the SU-30 uses a version of the same model.
Click to expand...

Looks pretty different to me, notably with a lack of RAT on the front. That being said, I'm wondering what the purpose of this is? I can understand it for the Indian Navy Flankers, but aside from conventional CVN ops, you don't really get anything out of buddy tanking.....and even then, it doesn't buy you much outside of recovery gas and robbing a couple jets off the roof each day that could otherwise be used for other purposes and not getting hammered with extra traps and flight hours

Then again, I guess it is better than nothing if your local Air Force doesn't own any big wing tanker aircraft.
 
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