USMC Guaranteed flight slots

Fly-Til-I-Die24-7

Fly-Til-I-Die24-7

New Member
Okay so been thinking about switching from civilian to the military side of aviation for several reasons and was considering the USMC aviation program bc they "guarantee" a flight slot. Now i was not born yesterday and i have dealt with recruiters before so i figured i would turn to a source that could maybe give me some info without only worrying about the bonus they get for signing me up.

A few things, i am 27 (too old?), have less than perfect vision (PRK an option?), have a 4 years degree in Aviation Technology (includes CFI-II, MEI, and 500hrs+ TT). What will the afore mentioned do or not do for me?

Why considering the change? Why not? Military aviation has always been interesting to me, i have always felt that i was cut out for a military career, and the civilian aviation industry has left little to be desired.

Thanks guys i look forward to some responses and all input will be appreciated much!
 
I'm not an expert on Marine Air programs, but the only "guarantee" program I am familiar with is for undergrads. If you go straight to OCS, I'm not sure whether you can get the same guarantee. As for vision, USN/USMC requires 20/40 correctable to 20/20 for pilot. Beyond that, you also have to pass a mil flight physical, which is significantly more thorough than Class 2 or 3 FAA medicals. Lastly, your prior civilian time is not going to do a whole lot for your package. The military really doesn't care if you have prior time, though it may or may not help you later on when you are actually IN flight school again.
 
I may be mixing up information here, but I THINK that you have to also serve a platoon commander for a time before going the flying route. The Marines' flight program advertises in all the "graduate school" and post graduate stuff I've been getting now that I'm close to graduating from college.

I'm not a military person, so I'll defer to the experts on the board. :)
 
I used to teach brand new Marines in the cessna under the IFS program. After college they either go to TBS (Not sure what it stands for, but its something like 6 months of basic training in Quantico) or they come to us, and then go to TBS. The preferred route is TBS then IFS, mainly because IFS is easy.

Anyway. They get 25 hours of cessna time. 20 dual, 5 solo. The good part about the marine corp is that they do in fact guarantee a spot as long as you meet the requirements and pass IFS. There isnt any fighting for a spot like in the USAF or USN.

From speaking to many students, if you have a PPL already, you skip IFS as its just a waste of money for the government to send you to do something you know. But we would routinly have guys with 30 - 40 hours that just hadnt taken the practical test yet.
 
v1valarob said:
I used to teach brand new Marines in the cessna under the IFS program. After college they either go to TBS (Not sure what it stands for, but its something like 6 months of basic training in Quantico) or they come to us, and then go to TBS. The preferred route is TBS then IFS, mainly because IFS is easy.

Anyway. They get 25 hours of cessna time. 20 dual, 5 solo. The good part about the marine corp is that they do in fact guarantee a spot as long as you meet the requirements and pass IFS. There isnt any fighting for a spot like in the USAF or USN.

From speaking to many students, if you have a PPL already, you skip IFS as its just a waste of money for the government to send you to do something you know. But we would routinly have guys with 30 - 40 hours that just hadnt taken the practical test yet.
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TBS is The Basic School. A school of infantry that ALL Marine officers attend, be you an NFO or an artilleryman.....as ALL Marines are riflemen first and foremost.
 
The thing about any "guaranteed" position in the military...make sure you read the fine print. Read very well the section that covers what is expected of you if things don't go exactly as planned. Know exactly what you want to do if you end up not flying and make sure that's exactly what will happen. It's usually very cut and dry if you ask the right questions. If you go in there and just ask vague questions you might get a vague answer that sounds right to you. As you say you know, recruiters don't know everything and will tell you just about anything if you let them.
 
I had only 1 student who couldnt fly the Cessna and was sent to pound sand.

Im pretty pissed off too because I recently found out that one of my best students, a dude who studied and knew all his stuff, and after only 5 hours and maybe 3 lessons, had me sitting there doing NOTHING. In fact I think we had to go fly a random flight to meet the requirements of solo, even though I was willing to sign him off earlier, but under the rules of the IFS program I couldnt. Anyway, he was taken out of the flying program due to some medical thing. Now he is doing something he certainly didnt plan on. But it is in the fine print that if you dont hack it as a flyer, you go do something else for the rest of your commitment.
 
v1valarob said:
But it is in the fine print that if you dont hack it as a flyer, you go do something else for the rest of your commitment.
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Correct. Once you're commissioned, you generally owe at least a 4 year committment to the military, sometimes more depending; thats just for graduating OCS. You definitely won't have the 10 year committment for pilots. Guys we had washout of my pilot training class in the USAF (we started with 35 and graduated 16), mostly went to ICBM missile silo duty.

NOW, if you graduate pilot training and incur the 10 year committment, then say a year or so later you get a medical condition that grounds you. You STILL owe the balance of that 10 year committment doing something else, some other ground job (pending it's not a medical condition that forces you out of the military altogether).
 
v1valarob said:
From speaking to many students, if you have a PPL already, you skip IFS as its just a waste of money for the government to send you to do something you know. But we would routinly have guys with 30 - 40 hours that just hadnt taken the practical test yet.
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This is why, for the USAF at least, IFS has reverted back to the contract training program that currently exists at Pueblo and is run by Doss Aviation.

The intent of IFS is to actually screen for two different things; ability to adapt to the flying environment (basic flying aptitude, airsickness, apprehension/afraid to fly, etc), AND the ability to adapt to the USAF's methodology of flying training.

It had been this way all the way up to circa 1998, when the "Enhanced Flight Screening Program" (EFSP) was canceled due to problems with the T-3.

For a period, there was no screening program at all, and the SUPT washout rates increased noticeably during that time.

So, the USAF's fallback plan was to start up IFT (Introductory Flight Training) and later IFS (Introductory Fight Screening). Both were focused exclusively on the "adaptation to the flying environment" portion of the screening process, and (due to the necessity of IFT and IFS being performed by civilian CFIs at FBOs) completely left out the "adaptability to the USAF training environment" portion.

This is where there were legitimate complaints, as you've made, about sending pilots who all ready had the necessary qualifications and/or flying aptitude through the program. The USAF changed policy more than once about students who all ready had PPLs and more having to go through the program.

Ultimately, however, the USAF realized that it needed to get back to addressing BOTH objectives of a screening program, and consolidated the program at Pueblo. The Pueblo program is very similar to the historical USAF screening programs (LATR, PIP, FSP, EFS, etc) in that in such a controlled environment allows IPs specifically trained to conduct their training in a SUPT-like atmosphere and screen for that second critical element.

So, I can't speak for how it is currently with the USN/USMC, but the USAF left the issues you brought up several years ago.
 
MikeD said:
TBS is The Basic School. A school of infantry that ALL Marine officers attend, be you an NFO or an artilleryman.....as ALL Marines are riflemen first and foremost.
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TBS comes AFTER you graduate OCS as a 2nd LT. So you will spend at least a year in the Corps before you start training. Another 2-3 years of flight training, and THEN your comitment starts. Also if you have dreams of flying for the airlines, remember that 3/4 of the airwing is helos.

The purpose of TBS is to indoctrinate all Marine officers in the mindset of the grunt with a rifle. The mission of Marine aviation is close air support, first and always. It's 6 months of infantry training, so theoretically any pilot could lead a rifle platoon (in reality no air winger would claim to be ready for such a challenge). Also remember as a pilot you could wind up as a Forward Air Controller toting a rifle and a radio.
 
All are correct; you would attend TBS after OCS, though if contracted you would not be competing for a flight spot @ TBS (like the other folks are). Most Marines do IFS in Quantico (before leaving TBS for pcola), though they have the choice as of now to do it in the Pcola area while awaiting API (ground school). IIRC there are 2 schools now that do IFS in the greater Pcola area. It is for students who don't have a PPL (or greater). Since the OP has his certifications, he would simply get IFS waived when he checks into NASC (Naval Aviation Schools Command). Marines are generally 1st Lt's by the time they wing, though some in my winging group will be Capt's due to an early promotion program going on right now.

You are pushing the upper limits of the age range right now, so apply ASAP if you have the means. If you don't have prior enlisted service, you will not be eligible for an age waiver in the USN or USMC.

The only contract programs I am familiar with are through NROTC or PLC. Beyond that, they MAY contract to straight OCS accessions, though I don't know for sure (I'm a Navy guy so I'm not intimately familiar with their programs).

Marine air is an exciting program, and I don't think you can go wrong with any of their platforms. Keep in mind that the majority of Marine aviators are helo drivers, so there is a good possibility that you would end up in that community. That said, from what I saw, the most competitive communities were KC-130, and helos. A lot of guys with jet grades who wanted helos got drafted anyway for jets. I know several guys this happened to that are now in advanced/strike with me in the T-45C. So it really (like anything else in flight school) comes down to timing.

The last thing I would say, is that you need to be sure you want to be a Marine Officer first and foremost. Just doing it to fly is setting yourself up for possible trouble later on. High time prior civilian pilots do wash out of the program on occasion for one reason or another (performance or physical DQ mostly), so if you end up being a ground pounder, you had better be damn psyched about doing that too. Also, I know guys who went to the Hornet FRS (where you get your initial platform qual before going to an operational squadron), and were IMMEDIATELY tasked with IA tours.....read: no operational duty before hitting the dirt. They were of course rewarded following those tours with fleet flying tours, but it is still a very real possibility. Another good possibility is ending up in a FAC tour, running around with the grunts and calling in air strikes. It is a requirement that those guys be tactical aviators, so they regularly pull folks for that duty following initial operational tours. Again, living in the dirt with Marines, not flying anything. So keep that all in mind. If that appeals to you (which it sounds like maybe it would), then get on the ball and apply before it is too late!
 
This was in the mid-90's so it may have changed, but I joined via Navy OCS and was "guaranteed" a pilot slot. You had to be commissioned by age 27 if you were on the aviator track. The other guys are spot on about commitments if you don't make through flight training or something happens post winging. Good luck in whatever path you choose.
 
Fly-Til-I-Die24-7 said:
Okay so been thinking about switching from civilian to the military side of aviation for several reasons and was considering the USMC aviation program bc they "guarantee" a flight slot. Now i was not born yesterday and i have dealt with recruiters before so i figured i would turn to a source that could maybe give me some info without only worrying about the bonus they get for signing me up.

A few things, i am 27 (too old?), have less than perfect vision (PRK an option?), have a 4 years degree in Aviation Technology (includes CFI-II, MEI, and 500hrs+ TT). What will the afore mentioned do or not do for me?

Why considering the change? Why not? Military aviation has always been interesting to me, i have always felt that i was cut out for a military career, and the civilian aviation industry has left little to be desired.

Thanks guys i look forward to some responses and all input will be appreciated much!
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I dont want to be the one to rain on anyones parade but I believe you are too old. From what I remember reading on www.airwarriors.com, one must be 27.5 by the time you commission. For Navy its 27. Have you considered ANG or Reserves?
 
They guarantee it pending that you pass OCS. From what I heard if you fail OCS you're out, and not stuck with some BS job.

I'm going to get the ball rolling on a USMC aviation slot in the next 2 weeks, I don't graduate until May so the timing is perfect.

Not everyone in the Marines wants to be a pilot so your chances are a bit better from what I heard.
 
Something else to keep in mind: You might be a "pilot", but that doesn't mean you will do nothing but fly airplanes. I can tell you about a young captain in our squadron who just got sent off to the sand box to be a convoy commander. Yes, you heard right....a convoy commander. Personally, this is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard. As a taxpayer, it pisses me off that the AF will spend over a million bucks on a guy/gal and send them off to do something ANY officer or NCO could do. Talk about a misuse of assets and not a great ROI. It's messed up, but it is what it is. So, if you want to FLY AIRPLANES ONLY...you may want to seriously consider your options in regards to the military.
 
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