Use MESA as a time-building tool?

[SmitteyB]

Mesa wants you to use them as a timebuilding tool! They can get away with you not fighting Crew Scheduling and complaining aobut wages. They want you to timebuild with them!

 

[meritflyer]

Mesa wants you to use them as a timebuilding tool! They can get away with you not fighting Crew Scheduling and complaining aobut wages. They want you to timebuild with them!

That's probably true.

 

[Trip7]

Heh.

I hold 16 days off a month, every month, fly free first class to Tokyo, have a 401k match at 5%, full benefits, better reserve rules than mainline, a better bid system than malinline, make enough money to live comfortaby in a very cool, very expensive apartment in trendy Hoboken (Oh, by the way, my pay is higher than a 1st year CAL FO flying a 767...) and I enjoy a work group whose morale is higher than any legacy carrier I can think of. No, I don't think this 'sucks' by any measure.

Further, since I live in base and hold day trips (sleeping in my own bed every night is wonderful), I fly with plenty of people who have made ExpressJet a career. These guys typically drive luxury automobiles, have nice houses in the Poconos, and can afford to send their kids to private schools and take their wives to Paris during their 4 weeks of vacation. Something tells me they don't really think it 'sucks' either.

I am continually amused by people who are incapable of separating a slipshod operation like Mesa from a industry-leading company like ExpressJet on the grounds that they equipment they operate is externally similar. I find it difficult to get angry at these people, however, as it is painfully obvious that they are speaking from a standpoint of complete and utter ignorance. It must 'suck' to be them.

~

John, I think you will soon find that you were not owned by any stretch of the imagination. Welcome to the Monkey House (re: Vonnegut).

Hey guys, thanks for reminding me that the regional airline I work for "sucks". I need to be reminded because things keep happening that make me think otherwise.

Early on when I had to ask a captain what a "stand-up" was and got the answer, I didn't think my company sucked. I still haven't done one after a couple months on line. I haven't even seen on in open time.

When I was on reserve for less than a month I didn't think my company sucked.

When I was drinking a cerveza in Mexico on Cinco de Mayo on an overnight, I didn't think my company sucked.

When more money appeared in my bank account than with anything I've ever done before, I didn't think my company sucked.

When I asked for the last 2 days of June off and they gave me the last 5 (with 15 days off in the month), I didn't think my company sucked.

When I was able to trade up and build a money-making line for myself worth 99:50 in July, I didn't think my company sucked. What's PBS?

The times Newark has been all fouled up and I'm sitting out on the ramp making money while waiting to take off, I didn't think my company sucked.

So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that for someone who went from flying a 1,764-lb GA plane in a flight instructing job to flying for a regional, ExpressJet doesn't suck. It's awesome, actually.

Mike

This is what I'm talking about!

 

[CapnJim]

PS-You get my PM about my Party on the 22nd? It is in the Meet and Greet Section.

I did get it! Unfortunately I'm going to be in AUS that weekend, but man, thanks for the invite!

 

[bike21]

Gotta agree with CapnJim here - not all regionals SUCK. I mean talk to a lot of mainline United guys. How happy are they right now? And NWA?

Unfortunately our profession has too many guys/gals that will NEVER be happy no matter what the circumstances are. I know too many of them, used to supervise such a person and they are EVER the pessimist. Those kind of folks will always bring us down. Both in the cockpit and professionally.

While this industy needs vast improvement, b*tching about it and doing nothing doesn't cut it. Not singling anyone out here, cause Seggy, myself, and many others work hard with trying to actually make improvements.

I am happy at my company right now (relatively measured) but will continue to work to improve the condtions here and also make moves to make the big picture for the entire industry to prosper.

Saying every regional sucks - I just can't buy it.

 

[Captain_Bob]

Mesa wants you to use them as a timebuilding tool! They can get away with you not fighting Crew Scheduling and complaining aobut wages. They want you to timebuild with them!

Smitster...

Totally agree with you on that one... didn't really think about it that way until you said that.

Bob

 

[Nick]

This thread is largely a glass half full vs. glass half empty debate.

You can say all the regionals suck, some are good, or some suck less than others but it all means the same thing.

Besides -- for people who switch careers in their 40s or 50s and are a captain at a good/less sucky regional, nothing might suck as much as going to a major airline (generally considered better, right?) and having the low QOL and low pay of a new-hire only to have just a few years for it to build up again.

Sure, FDX and UPS new-hire first and second year pay averaged together is probably better than regional CA pay but they are somewhat exceptions compared to new-hire pay at CAL for example.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

It cracks me up when guys try to rationalize what 'regional' to go to. I think the best one is, whichever one hires you first.

I don't know if I can agree with that, Mark . . . some people might choose different regionals based on different reasons.I think that a lot of regional pilots are bitter and miserable because they DID simply go to the first regional that hired them.Like I tell people - stop, breath, enjoy the ride. Do what works for YOU!If I'd gone to the first regional that offered, I'd have been an unemployed Regions guy, scrambling to find the next regional that answered.Not cool.

 

[CapnJim]

Working for a major and saying that ExpressJet 'just sucks less' than Mesa is like eating at Ruth's Chris and then saying that Sardi's 'just sucks less' than Taco Bell.

Can a thing be both technically correct and utterly idiotic? I think this thread proves that the answer is an uneqivocal 'yes!'

 

[av8sean]

As much as I love to hear the praises of XJET, this thread had drifted way off the original intent... which is basically asking if it's a valid idea to use Mesa to get free/paid training on the CRJ, and the drop them when the first opportunity arises at a better airline, AKA xjet or skyw.

This thread is largely a glass half full vs. glass half empty debate.

You can say all the regionals suck, some are good, or some suck less than others but it all means the same thing.

Besides -- for people who switch careers in their 40s or 50s and are a captain at a good/less sucky regional, nothing might suck as much as going to a major airline (generally considered better, right?) and having the low QOL and low pay of a new-hire only to have just a few years for it to build up again.

Sure, FDX and UPS new-hire first and second year pay averaged together is probably better than regional CA pay but they are somewhat exceptions compared to new-hire pay at CAL for example.

 

[Captain_Bob]

As much as I love to hear the praises of XJET, this thread had drifted way off the original intent... which is basically asking if it's a valid idea to use Mesa to get free/paid training on the CRJ, and the drop them when the first opportunity arises at a better airline, AKA xjet or skyw.

I agree that there's been drift... but... actually... there's a few good gems in this thread that have to do with your question...

Here's a few:

I heard they have a high washout rate. You have to be careful and not washout in training and have the record follow you around the rest of your career, especially if Mesa is your first "airline" job.

I don't think the decision is as much about washout rates and time building as it is, do you want to live with 8 days off on reserve doing standup overnights constantly when there are quality companies hiring at 500 to 1000TT?

I realize Mesa is a crap airline...

Flying an RJ is a JOB (and should be treated as such) not a time building experience. (except for TPIC to go to a major.)

I say if you can get the job, it's a great way to build time. Just be prepared to enter the suck.

I would avoid there as well.

(my CFI) told me... that as long as I didn't go to mesa I would be fine. That (and all the other storys you always here) is enough for me to know. Big fat no to Mesa! LoL.

Even though it is a better move, making a lateral move at the regionals has gotta suck. I try to tell all the CFIs I know to wait for SKYW or a better place like it first. Don't wanna do regional first year twice!!

Mesa wants you to use them as a timebuilding tool! They can get away with you not fighting Crew Scheduling and complaining aobut wages. They want you to timebuild with them!

Bob

 

[Alchemy]

Flying an RJ is a JOB (and should be treated as such) not a time building experience. (except for TPIC to go to a major.)

Yep, that about sums it up.

 

[Seggy]

I see your point, but I contend that the disparity between concept and execution are so disparate as to render the former irrelevant.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I think concept and execution should be tied together.

Worked for me... (thank goodness)

Bob

I don't know if I can agree with that, Mark . . . some people might choose different regionals based on different reasons.I think that a lot of regional pilots are bitter and miserable because they DID simply go to the first regional that hired them.Like I tell people - stop, breath, enjoy the ride. Do what works for YOU!If I'd gone to the first regional that offered, I'd have been an unemployed Regions guy, scrambling to find the next regional that answered.Not cool.

Lloyd and Bob, do you know how many people said I should go to Colgan, get some Turbine time under me and go somewhere else after three months and go to XJET. They said QOL is everything, go get based in EWR and live 30 minutes from there on the beach.

Well....My company which I have been with twenty months, which I will be in the top 20 percent by the end of the year seniority wise, will be opening a base in EWR. Continental is taking flying away from you guys at XJET and giving it to us. If I did go to EWR for XJET, were would that leave me? Going to XJET would have been the rational thing for me to do a year and a half ago, but in the end it would have hurt my career.

Talk to the XJET guys out of CLE. They aren't to happy with what is going on. They are losing about $10,000-$20,000 grand a year because of the contract no? NO regional is perfect. XJET is pretty close to it, but in the end we ALL suck.

How can we really rationalize our decision to go to a "regional" when bases open, close, are downsized, expand, or guys get furloughed.

We are doing a disservice to those trying to pick an airline telling them to pick a regional on a criteria of issues such as QOL, pay, current upgrade time and aircraft!


Has my QOL really been THAT bad at Colgan, I don't think so. I am going to enjoy 16 days off next month with 116 hours of flying, getting that TPIC. Is that bad?

Seriously, to those who want to 'settle' at a 'regional'. Be CAREFUL. Like Doug said, job security in the airline industry is laughable at best. Job security at a regional is insane.

Saying every regional sucks - I just can't buy it.

They ALL do.

This 'fee for departure' the regionals get paid with by the major codeshares is BULL######.

It is basically talking the profits from the major routes and using it to supply feed to multiple money losing markets just so the marketing department can say "we serve 1500 cities!"

THAT SUCKS, SO DO ALL REGIONALS!

 

[Trip7]

If you're flying the 170 or 175 for Republic, I'd say you have very good job security for the next several years

 

[OldTownPilot]

If you're flying the 170 or 175 for Republic, I'd say you have very good job security for the next several years

By flying the 170/175 for #### wages under sub contracted feed, you are pissing away your FUTURE job security at your major of choice.

many people fail to realize how their immediate actions will affect them in the future. "scope relief" being one of the biggest.

 

[derg]

If you're flying the 170 or 175 for Republic, I'd say you have very good job security for the next several years

I beg to differ.

"Job security" and "next few years" are contradictory.

Unless you 'own the code', don't fall into the false impression of job security.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I
Lloyd and Bob, do you know how many people said I should go to Colgan, get some Turbine time under me and go somewhere else after three months and go to XJET. They said QOL is everything, go get based in EWR and live 30 minutes from there on the beach.

Well....My company which I have been with twenty months, which I will be in the top 20 percent by the end of the year seniority wise, will be opening a base in EWR. Continental is taking flying away from you guys at XJET and giving it to us. If I did go to EWR for XJET, were would that leave me? Going to XJET would have been the rational thing for me to do a year and a half ago, but in the end it would have hurt my career.

So, what you're saying is that Colgan has worked for you just fine. But, it might not be the solution for everybody.

How can we really rationalize our decision to go to a "regional" when bases open, close, are downsized, expand, or guys get furloughed.

How can we really rationalize our decision to go to a major when bases open, close, are downsized, expand, or guys get furloughed?

We are doing a disservice to those trying to pick an airline telling them to pick a regional on a criteria of issues such as QOL, pay, current upgrade time and aircraft!

I love you like a brother, Mark, but that's nonsense! QOL is an important thing.

If a pilot lives in Los Angeles, has a family, a wife with a job, and a house, why would he be wrong for not choosing to fly for an east-coast airline? To him, QOL is a HUGE issue!

Has my QOL really been THAT bad at Colgan, I don't think so. I am going to enjoy 16 days off next month with 116 hours of flying, getting that TPIC. Is that bad?

Again, it has worked for YOU. For somebody that wants/needs to commute, the airline might not be the best choice!

Seriously, to those who want to 'settle' at a 'regional'. Be CAREFUL. Like Doug said, job security in the airline industry is laughable at best. Job security at a regional is insane.

Just because somebody might want to work for a good regional, doesn't mean that they want to settle at one.

 

[H46Bubba]

As much as I love to hear the praises of XJET, this thread had drifted way off the original intent... which is basically asking if it's a valid idea to use Mesa to get free/paid training on the CRJ, and the drop them when the first opportunity arises at a better airline, AKA xjet or skyw.

Don't bet on jumping ship too soon! Mesa has a training clause that states if you leave before your year of probation is up you must reimburse Mesa for all your training expenses. The more the year progresses the less the reimbursment. The same goes if you piss of the chief pilot and the company and they ####can you. Hope you have a fat wad of cash ready!

 

[Seggy]

So, what you're saying is that Colgan has worked for you just fine. But, it might not be the solution for everybody.

Yes up to this point is has worked greatly for me. I am lucky it has. Colgan is not right for everybody much like flying for Comair wouldn't be right for me.

How can we really rationalize our decision to go to a major when bases open, close, are downsized, expand, or guys get furloughed?

Because, like Doug said, in the long run majors have provided more job security than their outsourced companies. United and American will be in ORD as long as they stay in business, same thing for Delta in ATL.

I love you like a brother, Mark, but that's nonsense! QOL is an important thing.

If a pilot lives in Los Angeles, has a family, a wife with a job, and a house, why would he be wrong for not choosing to fly for an east-coast airline? To him, QOL is a HUGE issue!

Ok so a few years ago that pilot decided to go to ASA because they had an LAX base over XJET which was an 'east-coast' airline. Guess what, he is commuting to ATL rather than being based in LAX for XJET. There was a poster on here on another thread that went to Comair to live in base. Well, they closed that base.

Post 25 on this thread...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/45855-theyre-closing-base-oh-nooo.html

Again, it has worked for YOU. For somebody that wants/needs to commute, the airline might not be the best choice!

Agreed so far it has worked for me. I'm just bringing my points to the table. For a young guy who is flexiable, be willing to commute, be willing to go to an airline were QOL might not be as great as another regional to advance your career.

Just because somebody might want to work for a good regional, doesn't mean that they want to settle at one.

True, but there are a lot that are. NOTHING wrong with that. Just be careful with the beds we make.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

If you're flying the 170 or 175 for Republic, I'd say you have very good job security for the next several years

I beg to differ.

"Job security" and "next few years" are contradictory.

Unless you 'own the code', don't fall into the false impression of job security.

What happens when the Legacy determine its cheaper to let the "feeders" fun the 170/175/190 instead of them? The Legacy don't move anyone up (or even furlough pilots) and pass the workload back to the "feeders".

Wait until "feeders" start flying the CRJ-1000 :banghead: I think it might already be in the works.