USAPA

surreal1221 said:
Now I don't know much, but what I do know is that it was Major MECs who first started this whole "Scope" garbage.

If Major pilots want to blame regionals for moving in and taking flying, and doing it as contract work - you only have a short distance to look. The Major's respectable MEC's / National who initiated this whole "scope" business, hence allowing contract lift to come in and fly less than 76 (insert number for your local company) seat flying.

The regional's didn't generate that language, the Majors did.

Major Company XYZ: Well Pilots of XYZ, will you fly 50 seaters around?
Pilots of XYZ: No, but any aircraft larger than 50 seats must be flown by OUR pilots. Anything less, we do not want to fly.

Major Company XYZ: Well pilots of regional ABC, we'd like to offer you the chance to fly with our company, since our pilots say it's okay for you to fly it.
Regional Company ABC: Oh hell yeah...we'll fly it.

I'm pretty sure that's how it played out years ago.
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I agree 100%. It was pretty much the union leadership that didn't want anything to do with these airplanes...despite lots and lots of junior pilot's plea to the opposite. I don't know how many times I sat through union road shows with hundreds of pilots saying, "hey we want to fly those things..." and being told in reply,"...no you don't...".

I'm sure, if truth be told, they were sold down the river for negotiating capital for some other type of contractual improvement. That strategy has pretty much led to severe issues in this profession.

Even if the union did not care about scope, there should be some type of strategy from a national level that prevents the attrocious conditions airline pilots face in the bottom of the industry.

Management was able to wrestle 50% paycuts from certain segments of the industry. The union should be able to drag the regionals from the dungeon to a livable, respectable wage. I mean, $19 per hour...are you kidding me?
 
B767Driver said:
I don't know how many times I sat through union road shows with hundreds of pilots saying, "hey we want to fly those things..."
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And yet an overwhelming majority of them voted YES to the contracts that approved the outsourcing of their flying. Making a scapegoat out of the leadership is easy. Nobody wants to admit that their own vote caused the regional outsourcing problem.
 
PCL_128 said:
National can try to steer MECs in the right direction, but this is all ultimately up to the individual MECs and pilot groups. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts. They only provide assistance.
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I would think that ALPA National should be the group that is looking out for the airline pilot profession as a whole. The "big picture" guys if you will. Isn't it pretty tough to improve the lot of all airline pilots when there doesn't appear to be any leaders, at least with the power to actually do anything constructive? Can't ALPA members choose to give National more influence over contract negotiations?
 
SteveC said:
I would think that ALPA National should be the group that is looking out for the airline pilot profession as a whole. The "big picture" guys if you will. Isn't it pretty tough to improve the lot of all airline pilots when there doesn't appear to be any leaders, at least with the power to actually do anything constructive? Can't ALPA members choose to give National more influence over contract negotiations?
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They certainly could do that, but they never have. Captain Woerth (former ALPA President) always said that ALPA's biggest problem is a decentralization of power. He wanted to increase National's control over the process. But whenever somebody brings it up, certain factions start crying about National "micromanaging" their airlines. Pilots want it both ways: they want to be able to control their own destinies at their carriers, but then they want to blame ALPA National when things don't go as they'd hoped.
 
flywithUS said:
Yes, I was the one who liked the idea of the merger.
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Gotcha, a follow up question then.

Do you presently work for ANY 121 operator, or is it your father/mother/other family member that works for US Airways?

Just trying to follow your continued path of cheerleading for the US Airways company, also just want your position and relation to the company to be clear, be it you are a teenager who just loves the company because someone from your family works for them or you are an actual 121 pilot or if you actually work for US Airways in the capacity of a pilot.
 
PCL_128 said:
They certainly could do that, but they never have. Captain Woerth (former ALPA President) always said that ALPA's biggest problem is a decentralization of power. He wanted to increase National's control over the process. But whenever somebody brings it up, certain factions start crying about National "micromanaging" their airlines. Pilots want it both ways: they want to be able to control their own destinies at their carriers, but then they want to blame ALPA National when things don't go as they'd hoped.
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Interesting that you posted this.

The EC just put the AAA Local PHL Council in trusteeship.

Two things. They were openly (pretty much) supporting USAPA.

They were the original GAG.

Seems like National is taking a bit more interest locally. The funny thing is if they'd done this a few years ago like they should have they wouldn't have half as many pilots interested in booting ALPA.
 
BobDDuck said:
Interesting that you posted this.

The EC just put the AAA Local PHL Council in trusteeship.

Two things. They were openly (pretty much) supporting USAPA.

They were the original GAG.

Seems like National is taking a bit more interest locally. The funny thing is if they'd done this a few years ago like they should have they wouldn't have half as many pilots interested in booting ALPA.
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Ah, I had forgotten that that meeting was today. Any idea if the Council 41 reps actually showed up to the meeting to plead their case?

The problem is that they couldn't have done this a few years ago. Under the Bylaws, National can't just place a council in trusteeship for the hell of it. Article XIX deals with trusteeship (sometimes called receivership), and it has very specific guidelines for what dictates enough malfeasance for trusteeship. The fact that certain people think of them as the "GAG" doesn't qualify. They have to actually break their obligations under the C & BLs or place the Association in legal or other danger. Until now, the Council 41 reps have not done that (at least not to the best of my knowledge). Now that they are supporting uSAPa, they are not carrying out their duties under the Bylaws. That's enough to qualify for trusteeship, as the EC apparently ruled today.
 
surreal1221 said:
Gotcha, a follow up question then.

Do you presently work for ANY 121 operator, or is it your father/mother/other family member that works for US Airways?

Just trying to follow your continued path of cheerleading for the US Airways company, also just want your position and relation to the company to be clear, be it you are a teenager who just loves the company because someone from your family works for them or you are an actual 121 pilot or if you actually work for US Airways in the capacity of a pilot.
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No, I am not a pilot for US. My screenname is just something I have had for years and I don't want to remember another one, along with my simple lack of originality. I am currently a student over at ATP.
 
Oh, everyone's entitled to an opinion, however some are weighed somewhat heavier than others.

I hear that PHL just went into "Trusteeship". What are the ramifications of that I wonder...

Things apparently aren't going well at all at USAir. One of my friends is on the MEC there and he's looking at quitting and flying in Europe. I hope they get their crap together.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I hear that PHL just went into "Trusteeship". What are the ramifications of that I wonder...
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Some loyal pro-ALPA pilots were appointed by Captain Prater. They will represent the Council 41 pilots much better than the former reps who had ulterior motives of installing uSAPa.

One of my friends is on the MEC there
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Hopefully not one of the guys removed from his position today. :D
 
Nah, it wasn't him. He's a "Westie"! :)

Watching this crap go down, I'm increasingly ecstatic that Delta was able to fight off Doug Parker.
 
PCL_128 said:
Are you kidding me? You don't even have your ratings, and you think you know what's best for air line pilots? Forget it. I'll let Velo handle this one. Have at him, Velo.
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Show me exactly where I have displayed that I "know what's best for air line pilots?" Just because I don't fly for an airline doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on a pilot group that is getting screwed more often than a hooker on a corner street. Just because I don't fly for an airline doesn't mean I can't see hypocrisy, even if it is just on a forum. I'll invite Velo to handle this one because not once have I showed what I think "is best for air line pilots." All I have done is voiced my opinions on happenings at a certain pilot group. Yes I am an outsider, but so are you my friend.

And surreal1221, I knew this is what you were trying to accomplish. That my friends is how you make a point 101. Well played, but let's be clear. I am not trying to hide anything here, nor am I trying to be something I am not. I have only, and will continue to do so, voiced my opinions on certain subjects. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
PCL_128 said:
Some loyal pro-ALPA pilots were appointed by Captain Prater. They will represent the Council 41 pilots much better than the former reps who had ulterior motives of installing uSAPa.
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Represent Council 41 pilots better, or represent National better?
 
See, this is exactly why the new user profile format should be used. It's in your user CP. Fill out your hours and your type of flying an no one can "bait" you into revealing your experience.

You can see PCL 128 might catch some flack for flying for GIA in the past, but since he has it out there, no one can "ah-ha!" him. He's clearly not trying to hide anything.

Not saying you, flywithUS are trying to hide anything - just saying revealing your experience from the get go puts everyone on a level playing field and removes any question of who people are talking to.
 
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