USAPA

[jynxyjoe]

But it's not just the East guys that are getting screwed. Guys on the West side are getting screwed as well. I was in the jumpseat a couple days ago where the West Captain was in the top 10 before the lists combined, and now he'll be 500 something.

Ya. Boo-Hoo. 500 out of 6000........

This is exactly what i'm talking about. I have this hot tub and i always have a ton of naked girls in there especially in the winter. People tell me how great i have it but i keep telling them its expensive getting it cleaned all the time. God I have it rough. Pardon me, girls are calling from the hot tub.

 

[derg]

I'm not sure if the USAPA is going to change anything, because it's more or less wrestling control of the union from a blended group of AAA and HP and handing it over to AAA. As if that's going to clear the skies and make the bird sing again...

This is a classic example of why binding arbitration sucks.

Can anyone name a presidential candidate that was pressing for binding arbitration for the airline industry?

Buehler? Buehler?

 

[NJA_Capt]

This is quite possibly the most asinine statement in JC history.

Closely followed by a "Former GIA BE-1900 Copilot" telling us how a group of pilots are hurting the industry. Pot, meet kettle. (Who BTW, doesn't work for either of the companies involved in the dispute.)

But would Airways even be around today if it werent for AWA coming in and helping out during the rough goings?

No, neither one would be around. Both were in financial distress when they merged. AWA did not PURCHASE US Airways. USAir pilots aren't trying to take something AWA brought to the table, they are trying to protect what USAir is bringing to the table.

 

[BobDDuck]

NJ Capt...

I'm assuming that picture is the roof of the X? Damn those engines are huge.

</off subject>

 

[CamYZ125]

Here's the thing though. He'll still retire in the top 10 pilots at the company. Except now the top ten is out of 6000 instead of 2500 and the top 10 guys are captains on an A330 flying across the pond instead of a 757 flying to Las Vegas.

Doesn't sound like he made out so bad to me.

Well the percentage still changes. I don't know how many pilots are on the list now, or how many pilots were on the list when it was just AWA, but I'll use your numbers.

Top 10 of 2500 is 0.4%

Top 500 of 6000 is over 8%.

Which do you like better?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

NJ_Capt..

JL?

 

[B767Driver]

Closely followed by a "Former GIA BE-1900 Copilot" telling us how a group of pilots are hurting the industry. Pot, meet kettle. (Who BTW, doesn't work for either of the companies involved in the dispute.)

.

Yep, I noticed that too, NJA Capt. Here's a guy who wrote a check to get into the game pontificating to all...how everyone is bringing his profession down...and generally pissing on everyone in his way that disagrees with his view of how things should be run.

It was because of guys like this that I was stuck flying crummy jobs because of all the "pay for jobs" kind of guys out there forcing higher qualified pilots out of cockpit seats. And he's complaining about guys in uniforms helping out grandma in a wheelchair. Makes me want to puke.

 

[BobDDuck]

Top 10 of 2500 is 0.4%

Top 500 of 6000 is over 8%.

Your math is correct, but that's not how it will end up working. The majority of those 500 guys are older then the #10 guy you are talking about. So he's really going to end up around 100/6000.

Yep, I noticed that too, NJA Capt. Here's a guy who wrote a check to get into the game pontificating to all...how everyone is bringing his profession down...and generally pissing on everyone in his way that disagrees with his view of how things should be run.

Why do you hate ALPA?

 

[B767Driver]

Why do you hate ALPA?

I don't hate ALPA. Why do you say that?

 

[BobDDuck]

It was a play on something TonyW throws down here all the time. Anytime anybody criticizes the current administrator or their handling of what's going on in the Sandbox he throws out the "why do you hate America" question.

Basically, the if you don't agree you must be against thing.

Hence the smiley.

 

[derg]

You've been "Hannity'ed"!

 

[B767Driver]

It was a play on something TonyW throws down here all the time. Anytime anybody criticizes the current administrator or their handling of what's going on in the Sandbox he throws out the "why do you hate America" question.

Basically, the if you don't agree you must be against thing.

Hence the smiley.

Gotchya.

I'm Catholic...but does that mean that I agree with the priests who administered Holy Communion to Hitler and Mussolini on Sundays while they were gassing millions of Jews?

Of course not, because I'm not so blindingly rigid in my beliefs that I'm not able to use my given talents to see right from wrong. Any association that is going to box me into a corner and tell me how to do my business is one I'm going to be skeptical of. This is not what ALPA is about...but it's how this Pinnacle guy sure would like the union run.

A union that signs off on contracts that pays commercial airline pilots $19 per hour and works against the scope of pilots making a decent living is not one that is exactly furthering our profession. But yet we make a big deal about our day to day appearances and make sure that we belittle and intimidate other pilots from enjoying their jobs and working to their natural potential. Whatever.

 

[BobDDuck]

Hmph... I guess I'd better lay off the sarcasm.

(I'm agreeing with you here)

 

[inside0ut]

A union that signs off on contracts that pays commercial airline pilots $19 per hour and works against the scope of pilots making a decent living is not one that is exactly furthering our profession. But yet we make a big deal about our day to day appearances and make sure that we belittle and intimidate other pilots from enjoying their jobs and working to their natural potential. Whatever.

Yeah man, I hear that....

 

[Snuggle]

This is not what ALPA is about...but it's how this Pinnacle guy sure would like the union run.

A union that signs off on contracts that pays commercial airline pilots $19 per hour and works against the scope of pilots making a decent living is not one that is exactly furthering our profession. But yet we make a big deal about our day to day appearances and make sure that we belittle and intimidate other pilots from enjoying their jobs and working to their natural potential. Whatever.

I'm glad someone pointed this out. It's getting pretty strange with some of the posts on the subject. I really don't get it. All this intimidation is just turning people off from ALPA.

 

[Velocipede]

Any association that is going to box me into a corner and tell me how to do my business is one I'm going to be skeptical of. This is not what ALPA is about...but it's how this Pinnacle guy sure would like the union run.

If you're referring to the Captain's SOLE right to issue the jumpseat, you're WAY off base. ALPA has never dictated that Captain's MUST allow unlimited access. In fact, quite the opposite, ALPA is adamant that ONLY the Captain may determine who qualifies for jumpseat privileges.

A union that signs off on contracts that pays commercial airline pilots $19 per hour and works against the scope of pilots making a decent living is not one that is exactly furthering our profession.

Oh, the insanity, YET AGAIN! Must we ALWAYS remind you that the UNION doesn't agree to these kinds of contracts, local MECs do. And the fact that ALPA National is a signatory is simply legalese. For years Alaska had a no-strike clause in their contracts. ALPA signed off on it. Why? They really had no choice but to ratify any contract the local MEC agreed to.

So your biatch is with the local MEC, not with ALPA.

But yet we make a big deal about our day to day appearances and make sure that we belittle and intimidate other pilots from enjoying their jobs and working to their natural potential. Whatever.

I guess "working to their potential" is your code for the ability of non-Union pilots to thumb their collective noses at baseline Union wage rates and work rules.

And that's the mentality that is lowering the airline piloting profession to the sweatshop level.

 

[CFIscare]

Let me tell you who looks ridiculous. Its 3800 USAir East pilots who:

A. Went into SLI meetings demanding DoH.
B. Agreed to BINDING arbitration.
C. Continued to demand DoH when the ARBITRATOR HIMSELF told you it wasn't going to fly.
D. Started screaming like a bunch of stuck pigs (a PERFECT allusion!) when the list was ratioed.
E. Are now acting like bunch of spoiled brats who are going to take their ball and go home.

Again, your problem isn't with ALPA, its with the AAA MEC guys who screwed you. And now you're going to slip on your yellow lanyard and lynch yourselves because you didn't get your way.

Now that, my friend, is ridiculous. :banghead:

3,800 US East pilots did not want a binding arbitration. 3,800 East pilots know their MEC guys screwed up. 3,800 East pilots know that they need to do something to save their careers. If any of you think that a bunch of 55 year-old pilots are just going to let their lives be wasted for the "good of ALPA" are inhumane. These poor guys have already lost their retirement. They can't afford to be screwed again. There is only so much an a**hole can take.

This is quite possibly the most asinine statement in JC history. And that's saying a lot.

Well, I guess I am proud to have that honor.

 

[surreal1221]

flywithUS, are you the same guy that was all giddy about the hostile takeover attempt by US Airways of Delta?

 

[B767Driver]

If you're referring to the Captain's SOLE right to issue the jumpseat, you're WAY off base. ALPA has never dictated that Captain's MUST allow unlimited access. In fact, quite the opposite, ALPA is adamant that ONLY the Captain may determine who qualifies for jumpseat privileges.

The jumpseat never even crossed my mind.

Oh, the insanity, YET AGAIN! Must we ALWAYS remind you that the UNION doesn't agree to these kinds of contracts, local MECs do. And the fact that ALPA National is a signatory is simply legalese. For years Alaska had a no-strike clause in their contracts. ALPA signed off on it. Why? They really had no choice but to ratify any contract the local MEC agreed to.

So your biatch is with the local MEC, not with ALPA.

Yes, I believe that. Our national union has stood by and allowed the prolilferation of the regional airline industry to decimate scope clauses of major airlines and that has what has led to the "sweatshop" level of working conditions in the airline piloting profession.

I guess "working to their potential" is your code for the ability of non-Union pilots to thumb their collective noses at baseline Union wage rates and work rules.

And that's the mentality that is lowering the airline piloting profession to the sweatshop level.

Velo, I have no idea what you are talking about here...at least as it relates to what I've posted here. I have personally been on strike, walked numerous picket lines, manned telephones at strike centers, paid assessments to other pilots of other carriers who were on strike, religiously performed preflight checklists to ensure that I did not fly struck routes of pilots who were on strike, have paid over $3,000 of my personal cash to fund accounts to help other pilots who were on furlough and pay into the PAC program.

What I am talking about here is a disgust with those who defile a person's character for trying to operate with integrity and class. Not everyone is the same. There are those who work to minimum standards and there are those who go above and beyond. Both indivduals should be able to choose their level of motivation without intimidation. From an official ALPA standpoint I have never seen this become an issue.

 

[surreal1221]

Yes, I believe that. Our national union has stood by and allowed the prolilferation of the regional airline industry to decimate scope clauses of major airlines and that has what has led to the "sweatshop" level of working conditions in the airline piloting profession.

Now I don't know much, but what I do know is that it was Major MECs who first started this whole "Scope" garbage.

If Major pilots want to blame regionals for moving in and taking flying, and doing it as contract work - you only have a short distance to look. The Major's respectable MEC's / National who initiated this whole "scope" business, hence allowing contract lift to come in and fly less than 76 (insert number for your local company) seat flying.

The regional's didn't generate that language, the Majors did.

Major Company XYZ: Well Pilots of XYZ, will you fly 50 seaters around?
Pilots of XYZ: No, but any aircraft larger than 50 seats must be flown by OUR pilots. Anything less, we do not want to fly.

Major Company XYZ: Well pilots of regional ABC, we'd like to offer you the chance to fly with our company, since our pilots say it's okay for you to fly it.
Regional Company ABC: Oh hell yeah...we'll fly it.

I'm pretty sure that's how it played out years ago.