USAir Pilot To Be Fired For Handgun Going Off

I have looked deeper into it and found some items that would have prevented the discharge. I know, I have to keep everything vague.

I did find the problem, but I see it pretty far fetched.

Did this pilot tell you the exact story, word for word from his mouth? How do you know the complete information? It would be a horrible thing to say that you could prevent something like this, only to have it happen in the future. Let's not be too quick to judge what happened when in reality, nobody is 100% certain what happened in that cockpit except for the two pilots on the flight.
 
Exactly. Why do some pilots feel the need to condemn other pilots to termination? I take the same attitude that I did when I represented pilots in front of management: as far as I'm concerned, you're innocent until somebody proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you're guilty.
 
Very, very good point, PCL. Until it has been 100% proven that this pilot was "playing with the gun" in flight, I refuse to believe anything other than it was an accident that can happen to ANYBODY at ANYTIME.
 
Very, very good point, PCL. Until it has been 100% proven that this pilot was "playing with the gun" in flight, I refuse to believe anything other than it was an accident that can happen to ANYBODY at ANYTIME.
I agree that we don't know everything about the incident and I don't want to say he was "playing with the gun" on approach.

But as I said before, he DID do something wrong.

I order for the HK USP to fire the hammer must be cocked back and the safety off. Not to mention the heavy trigger pull required. This is one of the reasons the pistol is not much liked as a carry gun, because it takes a few steps to make it shoot.

The odds that this type of thing could conceivably happen with that particular pistol on safe, hammer forward, and in a holster are astronomical.

If nothing else he broke a few cardinal rules of gun safety, that much is certain from the very fact that the incident happened at all.
 
I agree that we don't know everything about the incident and I don't want to say he was "playing with the gun" on approach.

But as I said before, he DID do something wrong.

I order for the HK USP to fire the hammer must be cocked back and the safety off. Not to mention the heavy trigger pull required. This is one of the reasons the pistol is not much liked as a carry gun, because it takes a few steps to make it shoot.

The odds that this type of thing could conceivably happen with that particular pistol on safe, hammer forward, and in a holster are astronomical.

If nothing else he broke a few cardinal rules of gun safety, that much is certain from the very fact that the incident happened at all.

Um, yeah......I understand you have a couple H&K's; but your information, in this case, is wrong. I'll leave it at that.
 
All I can say is don't believe everything you read in the media. There's a good bit more to it then that.
 
Not at all. A pilot that was a safety hazard on a flight does not deserve to fly. Simple as that. There is no excuse for causing a safety hazard risking 100+ passengers. Putting someone like this back into the cockpit would not be a wise decision. Safety is safety. Once compromised, it should be dealt with. Bad pilots that sacrifice safety should not fly for an airline. Even if it was an "accident" the gun still should have been properly stored, safety on, and not taken out of its harness unless needed for the safety of the flight.

A gun will not go off accidentally unless someone tampers with it. Any way for the gun to go off starts with a person. In this case it was the pilot of the aircraft. They require the proper training for a reason. That is for safety of or you and others on board the aircraft.

Sure the pilot is professionally trained to fly and has been flying for a while but he demonstrated a lack of safety with the gun he possessed by ignoring his previous training. That image doesn't work well with an airline, especially when safety is a concern for customers. There is a reason why the airlines look at your traffic records, it is the same deal. Breaking the law on the road could happen in the air. Firing a bullet through the airframe of the aircraft is just as bad. The cockpit is not the place for incompetence.

I've got bad news for you, pilots ARE safety hazards. We have protections in place AGAINST us to make sure that we don't do anything so stupid so as to hurt/kill anybody.

Further, you're obviously out of your element. You don't know the FFDO procedures, you don't understand the concept that "people make mistakes" and that retraining is possible.

I would recommend that on this issue, you listen to the folks that are dealing with this day in and day out.
 
how so?

Unless it is not a USP model (which is what the article said) it takes all of those things to fire.

Simply put there are things folks can't talk about with this issue. Leaking security sensitive information (SSI) onto a public forum is a good way to get yourself fired.
 
Simply put there are things folks can't talk about with this issue. Leaking security sensitive information (SSI) onto a public forum is a good way to get yourself fired.
I am not asking for anything of the sort.

If there is a way that this model of pistol, my pistol can go off unintentionally that I am unaware of then I damn well want to know about it.

My question strictly pertains to the Universal Self-loading Pistol, not to procedures or anything like that.
 
Again, there are factors at work here folks are unwilling to talk about. Once you get into the FFDO program, which I'm sure you will if you ever come over to the part 121 world, then you'll understand.

And on public forums, mum will be the word. Lots of folks read these forums, including management types.
 
My question strictly pertains to the Universal Self-loading Pistol, not to procedures or anything like that.

From your point of view, knowing why would be a safety issue, and I understand this. I am NOT a gun person, but from what I understand of the program and the incident it was procedural issues, not a direct problem with the weapon system that resulted in the event.
 
Again, there are factors at work here folks are unwilling to talk about. Once you get into the FFDO program, which I'm sure you will if you ever come over to the part 121 world, then you'll understand.

And on public forums, mum will be the word. Lots of folks read these forums, including management types.
I completely understand not talking about FFDO info and once again I am not asking about that.

Info about the USP, all 10 variants, is available all over the internet.

My point in the previous post was that there must have been some sort of operator error, what exactly that was I don't care to know. Unless parts are broken that pistol does not go off on its own, that was my whole point.
 
From your point of view, knowing why would be a safety issue, and I understand this. I am NOT a gun person, but from what I understand of the program and the incident it was procedural issues, not a direct problem with the weapon system that resulted in the event.
That makes a whole lot more sense

Right now I have one of them disassembled in front of me looking for any wear or breakage. I takes my gun safety seriously.
 
I agree that we don't know everything about the incident and I don't want to say he was "playing with the gun" on approach.

But as I said before, he DID do something wrong.

I order for the HK USP to fire the hammer must be cocked back and the safety off. Not to mention the heavy trigger pull required. This is one of the reasons the pistol is not much liked as a carry gun, because it takes a few steps to make it shoot.

The odds that this type of thing could conceivably happen with that particular pistol on safe, hammer forward, and in a holster are astronomical.

If nothing else he broke a few cardinal rules of gun safety, that much is certain from the very fact that the incident happened at all.


Here's a pic from wikpedia of a variant 7 USP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HKUSPCOMPACT40.jpg

combine that with a LEM trigger and this DeSantis holster,

http://www.desantisholster.com/31l.html

Do you have any ideas on 1) how your statements might be incorrect, and 2)how this weapon might have an UD while inside this holster?
 
Here's a pic from wikpedia of a variant 7 USP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HKUSPCOMPACT40.jpg

combine that with a LEM trigger and this DeSantis holster,

http://www.desantisholster.com/31l.html

Do you have any ideas on 1) how your statements might be incorrect, and 2)how this weapon might have an UD while inside this holster?

1) As in the Law Enforcement Model does not have a safety, that I did not know. My compact (variant 5 I think) has one.

2)A perfect little hole in the holster to pull the trigger inadvertently. That is about the worst design I have ever seen in a holster.

Thank you for that explaination, it makes much more sense to me now how something like this could happen with that holster design.
 
2)A perfect little hole in the holster to pull the trigger inadvertently. That is about the worst design I have ever seen in a holster.

Especially when there is a federal requirement to stick something in that hole at various times.

Minds OUT of the gutter people. This is serious stuff.:)
 
DRAMA!!

My 2 cents. They should pull the tapes (if they haven't already). If he is horsing around fire him. I have this exact gun, I agree with bdhill, the odds of this gun accidentally discharging, when properly handled, are next to zero. I love the quote in the article..."this is no way to treat a long term pilot"...vs what? Should longevity reward dumbassity?
 
Hootie said:
My 2 cents. They should pull the tapes (if they haven't already). If he is horsing around fire him.

Most ALPA contracts prohibit the use of CVR and FDR data for disciplinary purposes. In the case of USAirways, LOA 37 from the contract specifically prohibits it.

I have this exact gun, I agree with bdhill, the odds of this gun accidentally discharging, when properly handled, are next to zero.

Are you an FFDO? If not, then you don't have the exact same gun. This isn't the same .40 H & K that is stocked at your local gun shop. There are modifications that can't be discussed here.
 
Most ALPA contracts prohibit the use of CVR and FDR data for disciplinary purposes. In the case of USAirways, LOA 37 from the contract specifically prohibits it.



Are you an FFDO? If not, then you don't have the exact same gun. This isn't the same .40 H & K that is stocked at your local gun shop. There are modifications that can't be discussed here.

Oh yeah, i forgot....it ISn't the same gun, the FFDO version has special terrorist super sights, and heat seeking bullets that fly out of the magical chamber.
 
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