USAir Pilot To Be Fired For Handgun Going Off

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Even accepting that the procedure for stowing the weapon is flawed (I tend to agree), isn't it the weapon operator's job to make sure the procedure is done correctly and safely?

The problem is that the equipment is so flawed that it is extremely difficult to tell whether you are correctly following the procedure. In other words, even if you think you are doing everything right, you might not be. I think there's a video out there on the internet that demonstrates this, but since it's technically SSI, I won't link to it.

Unless you know how this individual voted (as in you either saw his ballot or know him personally and he TOLD you) then DO NOT PUT WORDS IN HIS MOUTH.

You've been warned once in this thread about not going down that road and keeping it civil. We mean it.

With all due respect, there was nothing "uncivil" about that post.

 

[MQAAord]

With all due respect, there was nothing "uncivil" about that post.

I consider it highly uncivil to make statements about how someone who you do not know voted in an election.

I'll repeat myself, unless you have some way of knowing how he voted (seeing his ballot or hearing it from him) then you have no right to say whether he voted for USAPA or not. This individual is not a poster here (to our knowledge) so he is not here to defend himself against the allegations of the firearm discharge OR accusations of how he voted in the representation election.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I consider it highly uncivil to make statements about how someone who you do not know voted in an election.

I'll repeat myself, unless you have some way of knowing how he voted (seeing his ballot or hearing it from him) then you have no right to say whether he voted for USAPA or not.

Sorry, but I'm not backing down on this one. I think you're vastly overreaching. Not to mention that you really should be PMing me if you have a problem with my posts rather than making a public spectacle of it. I consider that to be far more uncivil than my original post.

If you'll read the post, you'll see that I didn't say "he did vote for uSAPa," I said that he "probably voted for uSAPa." That's a simple statement of fact based on statistics, since about 90% of the East pilot group voted for uSAPa. This shouldn't be glossed over, as it's a perfect opportunity for the new pilots on this board to see just how important it is to have real representation. That's called education, which is exactly what this board is supposed to be about.

 

[Ecl!pse]

Agree with Amber. Absolutely zero reason to attempt to make a claim as to how he voted unless you heard it straight from him.


As for the story, what happened is unfortunate. I have a good friend who is family friends with the pilot, and got the secondhand story from him. Just an unfortunate circumstance and it's a shame he may lose his job.

 

[MQAAord]

Ah, so it's "depends on what your definition of "is" is."......

I don't see you telling Kristie she should have PMed you, and the moderating I was doing was an extension of her telling you to keep it civil.

Also, ALPA being "real" representation is your opinion. Apparently the US guys do not agree.

I have no dog in the US - ALPA fight. If they don't want to be a part of ALPA, that's their business. And it is also someone's business whether or not they voted for for it. Or probably did, or didn't.......

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I don't see you telling Kristie she should have PMed you

Kristie's post was not condescending. Your post came off quite condescending and confrontational. But maybe that was just a misperception on my part. In any case, I disagree with the public moderator reprimands that frequently take place on this board. I think the mods should be a little more low key with their moderation.

 

[MQAAord]

I did not mean to come off as condescending.

If I had an incident of some sort on a plane, I would hope that someone on some internet forum somewhere wouldn't be making accusations and assumptions about how I'd voted in a union election.

 

[Old Pete]

This shouldn't be glossed over, as it's a perfect opportunity for the new pilots on this board to see just how important it is to have real representation. That's called education, which is exactly what this board is supposed to be about.

I agree, I'll be watching to see how effective ALPA is in protecting this pilot's job.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I agree, I'll be watching to see how effective ALPA is in protecting this pilot's job.

I think you mean USAPA. ALPA can't represent this pilot any longer, unfortunately. Sadly, I don't think USAPA has the resources to help him. He'll probably have to handle it himself, paying for it out of his own pocket.

 

[Old Pete]

I think you mean USAPA. ALPA can't represent this pilot any longer, unfortunately. Sadly, I don't think USAPA has the resources to help him. He'll probably have to handle it himself, paying for it out of his own pocket.

This incident happened while ALPA was still representing the US Airways pilots. I would guess he has been paying ALPA dues for how many years 15, 20 maybe longer?

If your telling me ALPA ceased doing anything for this pilot as of yesterday at about 2:00 p.m. it tells me alot about ALPA and its not very favorable.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

This incident happened while ALPA was still representing the US Airways pilots. I would guess he has been paying ALPA dues for how many years 15, 20 maybe longer?

If your telling me ALPA ceased doing anything for this pilot as of yesterday at about 2:00 p.m. it tells me alot about ALPA and its not very favorable.

Unfortunately, it's not a choice that ALPA has. USAPA is now the legal bargaining agent of USAirways pilots. No other union has the legal right to represent a USAirways pilots. If ALPA tried, USAPA could take the issue to federal court, and I'm sure that they would. ALPA's hands are tied in the eyes of the law.

 

[Cruise]

This incident happened while ALPA was still representing the US Airways pilots. I would guess he has been paying ALPA dues for how many years 15, 20 maybe longer?

If your telling me ALPA ceased doing anything for this pilot as of yesterday at about 2:00 p.m. it tells me alot about ALPA and its not very favorable.

The years of dues mean nothing at this point. The pilot group voted to oust ALPA and the representation they provided. Had the vote gone the other way, then ALPA would be where he should turn too to save his job. USAPA needs to be there for this guy's defence.

The above statement is just my opinion. [SIZE=-2](I don't know if ALPA has the ability to help this pilot, even if they wanted to correct an injustice now they've been given the boot).



[/SIZE] Edit: Seems PCL_128 already covered ALPA's lack of legal recourse

 

[Maurus]

Well, that's at least ONE career death due to this whole gun in the cockpit bit.

Nevertheless, it shouldn't have ever been out in the first place.

Bummer.

Where's ALP....err...uSAPa to provide legal protection / job security?

(HAH!)

Someone as dumb as him doesn't deserve protection from anyone.

 

[TheShortOne]

Someone as dumb as him doesn't deserve protection from anyone.

man, that was uncalled for

 

[Kristie]

totally!!

 

[Old Pete]

Unfortunately, it's not a choice that ALPA has. USAPA is now the legal bargaining agent of USAirways pilots. No other union has the legal right to represent a USAirways pilots. If ALPA tried, USAPA could take the issue to federal court, and I'm sure that they would. ALPA's hands are tied in the eyes of the law.

I understand that USAPA received the authority to bargain on behalf of the USAirways pilots. I'm not questioning that, but I find it hard to believe that there is no way that ALPA could offer legal assistance, and the pilot could receive it.
But I think that's beside the point. If I read between the lines, I'm guessing you think the ALPA should do the absolute minimum they are legally required to do, rather than the most they are able to do.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I understand that USAPA received the authority to bargain on behalf of the USAirways pilots. I'm not questioning that, but I find it hard to believe that there is no way that ALPA could offer legal assistance, and the pilot could receive it.

The RLA allows for only one official legal representative of a "class and craft" at a company. The NMB election that just took place removed ALPA as that legal representative and put USAPA in place. From that day forward, ALPA is prohibited under law from directly representing any employees that are a member of that class and craft (USAirways pilots). The most ALPA could legally do would be to offer USAPA assistance in representing the pilot. USAPA, however, would have to be the actual representative. ALPA could only provide consultation and other indirect assistance as a contractor through ALPA Services Corp. However, if you know the USAPA leaders, you'd know that USAPA would never accept any sort of assistance from ALPA on this or any other matter. Their hatred for ALPA is so deep and so irrational that they'll allow this pilot to hang before they'll ask ALPA for help.

But I think that's beside the point. If I read between the lines, I'm guessing you think the ALPA should do the absolute minimum they are legally required to do, rather than the most they are able to do.

Your guess would be incorrect. This is a legal matter, not a moral one. No matter how much ALPA may want to help, they cannot.

 

[Kristie]

arooo? i didn't read it that way at all. I think his point is that they have no choice but to step back now - unless - there's a floating closure period? Does ALPA have anything like that where if something happened during the time ALPA was representing, that something could be grandfathered in in such a way that ALPA representation would finish the job?

in other words, could this guys legal battle be grandfathered so that ALPA can finish the job of representing him SINCE this incident occurred while he was an ALPA member? I can't imagine that he would lose ALL representation right in the middle of the case because of this. that would seem odd.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

arooo? i didn't read it that way at all. I think his point is that they have no choice but to step back now - unless - there's a floating closure period? Does ALPA have anything like that where if something happened during the time ALPA was representing, that something could be grandfathered in in such a way that ALPA representation would finish the job?

in other words, could this guys legal battle be grandfathered so that ALPA can finish the job of representing him SINCE this incident occurred while he was an ALPA member? I can't imagine that he would lose ALL representation right in the middle of the case because of this. that would seem odd.

He didn't lose all representation rights, his representation has merely been transferred to the new legal bargaining agent. I don't believe that the law allows for any sort of "grandfather period," but I'm no attorney, so I'm not completely sure.

 

[derg]

Wow, taking a study break to read about guns and end up reading about collective bargaining!