USAF mulls retirement of the F-15C/D

MikeD

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With all the F-15A/B models retired from ANG service, the F-15C/D remains as the only versions of the "light grey" air-air-only fighter in inventory. Residing in just 3 active duty USAF squadrons (all OCONUS) and 6 ANG squadrons in 5 states, the USAF is considering full retirement of these venerable machines, which would leave only the "dark grey" F-15E Strike Eagle multirole versions of the Eagle family in operational service.


http://taskandpurpose.com/f-15c-may-soon-headed-retirement/


The Air Force is weighing whether it should retire its fleet of F-15C fighters from its active-duty and reserve units and transition those crews to F-16s with upgraded radars, service leaders revealed Wednesday to House lawmakers.

“Has there been a decision or a proposal by the Air Force to get rid of the F-15C and to replace it with F-16s with new radar on it? This is the first I’ve heard of it,” Rep. Martha McSally, R-Ariz., asked Air Force leaders during a hearing of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Readiness.

Maj. Gen. Scott West, who is the Air Force director of current operations, told subcommittee members that the service is in the “pre-decisional stage” of potentially replacing the aircraft.

“I don’t know if that’s formal, but I know we are discussing ways to maximize [the Air Force budget] and minimize the number of systems that we operate,” he said.

However, West did not say how much money the Air Force could save by retiring the F-15Cs.

Lt. Gen. Scott Rice, director of the Air National Guard, said the retirement would also apply to Guard and Reserve F-15Cs.

The Air Force has 212 F-15Cs and 949 F-16s. It was not immediately clear which of two models of the F-16 would replace the F-15C.

Rice said retiring F-15Cs is one of several options that the Air Force started to consider in the fall. If the aircraft is retired, it could take effect as early as fiscal year 2019, he said.

“There’s about four or five different options,” Rice said. “One of the options is retiring the F-15Cs and replacing them with F-16s with upgraded AESA [Active Electronically Scanned Array] radars.”

The AESA radar improves an aircraft’s ability to simultaneously scan for air-to-air and air-to-ground threats. It is already installed on some of the military’s newer fighters.

McSally, a retired Air Force A-10 squadron commander, questioned whether the F-16 could match the capabilities of the F-15C.

“I don’t want to get into pilot rivalries here, but if we’re talking about fourth generation assets, you’ve got the F-15C, which prior to the F-22 was the best at air-to-air … the F-16 is an incredible, versatile, multi-role little bit less expensive sort of decathlete,” McSally said.

“Comparing the capabilities side by side …We all need to be careful through that analysis,” McSally said. “[An F-16] doesn’t bring the same capability the F-15 does with expertise in air-to-air.”

Rice said that as the Air Force integrates all of its aircraft systems, the different capabilities each type of aircraft has will be less important.

McSally also questioned how much retraining F-15C crews to fly F-16s would affect Air Force readiness.

West said there would be some impact to the service’s readiness. He did not say whether there would be a cost associated with the retraining.

“When you are doing a change from one major weapon system to another, you are going to be off the line for a while,” he said.

McSally said she would like to further address the issue at a follow-up subcommittee hearing.

 
I think this proposal did not quite get interpreted right by the press as it likely got to the press from a staffer who heard the brief.

The original reporting on the story stated "...the proposal to retire some F-15s is predecisional. (italics added)"

There's a small number of "Silver Eagles" that cannot be upgraded to modern radars, and older radars are both less capable and more maintenance intensive. To me, replacing the Silver Eagles and their mechanically scanned radars with F-16s that have Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars makes sense from both a capability and cost perspective. Having not seen the proposal, I bet dollars to donuts that the actual proposal was "Retire the Silver Eagles and replace with F-16s" vice "Retire all F-15C/Ds."
 
I think this proposal did not quite get interpreted right by the press as it likely got to the press from a staffer who heard the brief.

The original reporting on the story stated "...the proposal to retire some F-15s is predecisional. (italics added)"

There's a small number of "Silver Eagles" that cannot be upgraded to modern radars, and older radars are both less capable and more maintenance intensive. To me, replacing the Silver Eagles and their mechanically scanned radars with F-16s that have Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars makes sense from both a capability and cost perspective. Having not seen the proposal, I bet dollars to donuts that the actual proposal was "Retire the Silver Eagles and replace with F-16s" vice "Retire all F-15C/Ds."

Can't imagine the light-greys we do have, have a lot left in the way of airframe life, unless they've been extended in some way. With so few Eagles left in inventory.....even less than the A-10 fleet.....I wonder how sustainable the light-grey fleet is, both maintenance as well as dollars wise.
 
Can't imagine the light-greys we do have, have a lot left in the way of airframe life, unless they've been extended in some way. With so few Eagles left in inventory.....even less than the A-10 fleet.....I wonder how sustainable the light-grey fleet is, both maintenance as well as dollars wise.

The other half is that Congress gets really touchy when we start talking about making whole fleet divestments. In my current role, I'm fairly close to Eagle updates -we're putting quite a lot of money and energy into updating the light-greys. On the support side, I think the situation is actually a bit better than the A-10, as the F-15C/D and the F-15E share a program office, a depot, and most maintenance functions. Most support functions are borne over 400+ jets as opposed to the 200-something light greys. The processors on both are about to be the same unit with the goal of making software that's standard for both types. My one big concern is structural fatigue -there have been a few high-profile aircraft losses due to the fatigue issue.

Big picture, I don't think the proposal "Retire all the F-15C/Ds!" got reported right, as the Air Force knows such a proposal would blow up politically given the A-10 fiasco a few years ago.
 
The other half is that Congress gets really touchy when we start talking about making whole fleet divestments. In my current role, I'm fairly close to Eagle updates -we're putting quite a lot of money and energy into updating the light-greys. On the support side, I think the situation is actually a bit better than the A-10, as the F-15C/D and the F-15E share a program office, a depot, and most maintenance functions. Most support functions are borne over 400+ jets as opposed to the 200-something light greys. The processors on both are about to be the same unit with the goal of making software that's standard for both types. My one big concern is structural fatigue -there have been a few high-profile aircraft losses due to the fatigue issue.

That's good that the light grey and dark grey share the same SPO, protection in numbers and all.

Though I can still remember F-111s getting upgrades to them installed, a couple of months prior to them heading to the boneyard, all because it was already paid for. Same as bases that get new commissaries or other amenities, regardless of the fact that they're on the BRAC list and will be closing in a few months (like the new commissary deli at Williams AFB......8 months before it was known to be shutting down).

Big picture, I don't think the proposal "Retire all the F-15C/Ds!" got reported right, as the Air Force knows such a proposal would blow up politically given the A-10 fiasco a few years ago.

Don't know if the Eagle has the same type of following that the A-10 does, misguided in some ways as that following is.

In the mission sense, and in the spirit of going away from the 1980s era of single-mission aircraft and getting rid of them, I would think the light-grey would fall into that category, in addition to age, etc.
 
"pre-decisional" and "there's about four or five different options". That's the sort of third grade grammar you just wouldn't be able to get out of an Annapolis or West Point grad.
 
(Sigh)

I remember when f-15s were new and were still being delivered out of St.louis.

You know you're getting old when you find the helicopter that you have flown in is on display at the National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola.
 
is an F15E a less Capable air to air fighter than the C?

As as dogfighter, generally yes, as its larger/heavier, etc. Still a fine fighter, but just a little more limited in that respect than its light grey brethren.

Of course, I may receive spears my way for those comments....:)
 
Daff, the only appropriate fighter pilot answer is "it depends".

The disdain I used to see between light grey and dark grey peeps was interesting. Since a number of both of those people were in my squadron, it was always amusing to see them snipe each other at the bar or club. The light grey guys/gals outnumbered the dark grey ones, but the dark greys would get mutual support during these wars from the old-guy F-111 dudes. The old F-4 guys could go either way, depending on if they came from an air-ground unit or an ADC background. The viper guys largely stayed out of these pissing matches. :)
 
(Sigh)

I remember when f-15s were new and were still being delivered out of St.louis.

You know you're getting old when you find the helicopter that you have flown in is on display at the National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola.

For what it's worth, there are still new F-15s being delivered out of St. Louis....
 
When the F-22 was first flown (back when I was in 7th grade), it was supposed to be a 1 for 1 replacement for the F-15C.
 
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