USAF: Attempt Carrier Landing or Eject Nearby?

MikeD said:
Truthfully, without them knowing or having practiced the techniques, you would be entirely correct that they don't have the capabilties, practically speaking.
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I just worded it that way because I didn't want to imply that AF guys, with the appropriate training, couldn't do what we do. It isn't rocket science, but there is a very methodical way of doing it which takes practice while obeying some rules that were written over the years with a lot of blood.
 
Just saw 3 Hornets take off out here in Missouri; each did a slight right wing dip after gear retraction. Any idea why?
 
Probably so that -2 and -3 were established on the right hand side for the join up. You don't want to be directly behind lead, 10 seconds in trail, because it is nearly impossible to judge closure from behind. Typically you want to be a few hundred feet to the side of lead and then drive up to the 45 deg bearing line prior to closing it into parade or cruise position on the initial join. People really don't like wingmen closing on them from dead six, as that's how people have midairs. Also his jet wash sucks if you are directly behind and below him. Only other reason I can think of is maybe in raising the gear handle (by the left knee) with your left hand, one subconsciously moves the stick a little to the right to peek down at the gear handle, but that would be a lot less pronounced and probably not noticeable to a ground observer. It also could have simply been part of the departure instructions, if they weren't "runway heading".
 
///AMG said:
Probably so that -2 and -3 were established on the right hand side for the join up. You don't want to be directly behind lead, 10 seconds in trail, because it is nearly impossible to judge closure from behind. Typically you want to be a few hundred feet to the side of lead and then drive up to the 45 deg bearing line prior to closing it into parade or cruise position on the initial join. People really don't like wingmen closing on them from dead six, as that's how people have midairs. Also his jet wash sucks if you are directly behind and below him. Only other reason I can think of is maybe in raising the gear handle (by the left knee) with your left hand, one subconsciously moves the stick a little to the right to peek down at the gear handle, but that would be a lot less pronounced and probably not noticeable to a ground observer. It also could have simply been part of the departure instructions, if they weren't "runway heading".
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I like it when in a div form the stud as dash 2 decides to cross from the port to stbd side when still 1000' back for no reason. Lets see, lead is going to turn left as briefed, so runner to CV, stay on the port side, cross to stbd. It happens all the time lol, just the other day as a matter of fact.
 
bunk22 said:
I like it when in a div form the stud as dash 2 decides to cross from the port to stbd side when still 1000' back for no reason. Lets see, lead is going to turn left as briefed, so runner to CV, stay on the port side, cross to stbd. It happens all the time lol, just the other day as a matter of fact.
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I started taking admin notes during the brief in T-45's for just this reason, and do so to this day. I've gotten the crazy eye from a couple leads for this over the years since people wonder WTF I could be taking notes about, but it's my way of not being "that guy". I always take a minute to review while waiting in marshall, and when I'm brain saturated thinking about the tactical stuff to come, it is a good sanity check and helps me keep the admin hat on when I need it. Less important now that I have done it hundreds of times, but it really was a big help in T-45's when I still kind of had no big picture SA.
 
Punch out close to the carrier at 2000' AGL (controlled ejection parameters) and get picked up by the helo.

At least I have a chance of surviving that...compared to trying to land an aircraft that is not stressed for the landing, using a hook that's not robust for carrier arrestment, and a pilot that has no idea what he's doing outside of looking at the meatball and not "spotting the deck". The latter is a recipe for ending up wrapped up in a fireball.
 
As a general rule of thumb, nothing good EVER happens at the boat. The only reason pilots land on them is to get shot off of them. Really really. I've yet to meet any Navy pilot who really enjoys trapping at the boat. They love getting shot off of them. They'll do that all day and night. I cannot imagine any reason ever in my life that a USAF pilot would look at a carrier and say, "That's my VERY LAST option." Even Navy pilots hope that if something is going to go wrong, it happens as far away from the boat as possible. That is so someone at the wing doesn't have the desire to say, "Ehhhhh.... Just bring it back to the boat."

I'm trying to come up with something that the AF guys do better than Navy guys, and I'm still looking. Here's what it comes down to, SOMEONE has to be the best. That said, we generally all play nice together, and understand that more than ever it really is one team, one fight.

Sent from the halls of my imagination
 
Obviously from the sidelines here, but freaking awesome thread for a clip-on tie wearing airline dork like myself.
 
Well to be fair, I wouldn't say I exactly enjoy night cat shots......

But yes, daytime is awesome.
 
All I gotta say is that if I ever end up over a carrier in a PA32 or 207 and it's my only option, I'm landing on the boat.

Retracting flaps in the flare will have finally found its ultimate purpose.
 
MikeD said:
But, the way USN pilots fly their approaches and how hard/firm they land (because they must, there's no room for style points or flare's or smooth landings on a carrier deck), I'm not very confident the outcome would be good for the jet, and by extension, the pilot; part and parcel from all the other dangers mentioned.
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I was stationed at Holloman (might have bumped into ya once or twice) a pair of F18s came in as a precautionary divert. I guess one of the was having issues, but never declared... Anyway they lined up for Runway 22 (10,575x300) (why do I still know that?!?) and used maybe 200 ft of it! Obviously I'm exaggerating a little, but holy cow they hit the deck hard!!
 
bkey79 said:
I was stationed at Holloman (might have bumped into ya once or twice) a pair of F18s came in as a precautionary divert. I guess one of the was having issues, but never declared... Anyway they lined up for Runway 22 (10,575x300) (why do I still know that?!?) and used maybe 200 ft of it! Obviously I'm exaggerating a little, but holy cow they hit the deck hard!!
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I remember one day when I was SOF, we had an emergency divert KC-135 come in with brake/hydro problems, and they didn't even have the numbers to be able to safely stop on RW 7/25. So they landed 5 miles west at Space Harbor instead on the hard-dirt runway. Pretty cool watching that.
 
///AMG said:
Well to be fair, I wouldn't say I exactly enjoy night cat shots......

But yes, daytime is awesome.
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I've heard both about night shots. Some love em some hate em. Is it because of the probabilty of spatial d or is it just the thought of "if something should go wrong, I'm gonna be wet and cold.... at night... under a carrier."

Are you in Rhinos or Charlies?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
 
Canassis said:
I've heard both about night shots. Some love em some hate em. Is it because of the probabilty of spatial d or is it just the thought of "if something should go wrong, I'm gonna be wet and cold.... at night... under a carrier."

Are you in Rhinos or Charlies?
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He's an east coast Charlie model guy. And I think flew A-models in the RAG?
 
Canassis said:
As a general rule of thumb, nothing good EVER happens at the boat. The only reason pilots land on them is to get shot off of them. Really really. I've yet to meet any Navy pilot who really enjoys trapping at the boat. They love getting shot off of them. They'll do that all day and night. I cannot imagine any reason ever in my life that a USAF pilot would look at a carrier and say, "That's my VERY LAST option." Even Navy pilots hope that if something is going to go wrong, it happens as far away from the boat as possible. That is so someone at the wing doesn't have the desire to say, "Ehhhhh.... Just bring it back to the boat."

I'm trying to come up with something that the AF guys do better than Navy guys, and I'm still looking. Here's what it comes down to, SOMEONE has to be the best. That said, we generally all play nice together, and understand that more than ever it really is one team, one fight.

Sent from the halls of my imagination
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I'm going to say day landings can be fantastic and very enjoyable. The cat shot is one hell of a rush!!! Night traps and cats, not so much. I haven' trapped at night since 2003 and don't miss it. Never will.
 
Hacker15e said:
Punch out close to the carrier at 2000' AGL (controlled ejection parameters) and get picked up by the helo.

At least I have a chance of surviving that...compared to trying to land an aircraft that is not stressed for the landing, using a hook that's not robust for carrier arrestment, and a pilot that has no idea what he's doing outside of looking at the meatball and not "spotting the deck". The latter is a recipe for ending up wrapped up in a fireball.
Click to expand...

Bad things can happen at the boat, especially when it's the first time and trained....

 
Canassis said:
As a general rule of thumb, nothing good EVER happens at the boat. The only reason pilots land on them is to get shot off of them. Really really. I've yet to meet any Navy pilot who really enjoys trapping at the boat. They love getting shot off of them. They'll do that all day and night. I cannot imagine any reason ever in my life that a USAF pilot would look at a carrier and say, "That's my VERY LAST option." Even Navy pilots hope that if something is going to go wrong, it happens as far away from the boat as possible. That is so someone at the wing doesn't have the desire to say, "Ehhhhh.... Just bring it back to the boat."

I'm trying to come up with something that the AF guys do better than Navy guys, and I'm still looking. Here's what it comes down to, SOMEONE has to be the best. That said, we generally all play nice together, and understand that more than ever it really is one team, one fight.

Sent from the halls of my imagination
Click to expand...

You've met one now...and many of my contemporaries were much the same. Truly needed the adreniline rush. Same thing in combat...volunteering for the occasionally much more risky hops, hitting more heavily protected targets, etc...just for the extra "rush". Always looking for the ultimate in danger ...could get that "kick" in a most satisfying way ...all for "God and country" ...and getting paid for it to boot.

Got "it" all out of my system by age 28...and became a safe, seat-belt wearing old fart, flying for UAL! LOL!!
 
MikeD said:
He's an east coast Charlie model guy. And I think flew A-models in the RAG?
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Correct, I'm a Charlie/legacy guy. Flew A+/A++/B/C/D/D-/D+ in the RAG :)

As for not liking night cat shots, yeah I guess it is just a lack of horizon and getting thrown forward into absolute blackness 60' above the water. Especially on a solid IFR night, where you are IMC basically as soon as you are getting the gear/flaps up and coming out of blower, and trying to get some semblance of spacial awareness back after the g forces and eye blurring of the shot. That and it often means you are going to have to make a night trap before you get to eat. I haven't done it that many times yet, but that was my initial impression after night CQ in the Hornet.
 
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