flyover
New Member
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7146989
Hopefully haven't waited too long for this.
Hopefully haven't waited too long for this.
US to Hire 12,000 Air Controllers Over 10 Yrs -WSJ
- Thread starter flyover
- Start date
Thank the gov'mnt for keeping the supply down. It is my understanding that there are only 5 school in the nation that train students for this important piece of the aviation pie. Even the almighty "Riddle" school was turned down as a school for Controler training. Imagine that!
crashmbern
Well-Known Member
Re: US to Hire 12,000 Air Controllers Over 10 Yrs
yea i have the option of goin to ATC. I am currently getting my minor in ATC at ERAU. My mom would kill me if i didn't do the pilot thing for ATC. But its very hard to turn down the money. After 3 years you could be making well over $100,000. I don't think i could do ATC my whole life though, I'd probably shoot myself after a couple of years.
yea i have the option of goin to ATC. I am currently getting my minor in ATC at ERAU. My mom would kill me if i didn't do the pilot thing for ATC. But its very hard to turn down the money. After 3 years you could be making well over $100,000. I don't think i could do ATC my whole life though, I'd probably shoot myself after a couple of years.
avi8tor
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thank the gov'mnt for keeping the supply down. It is my understanding that there are only 5 school in the nation that train students for this important piece of the aviation pie. Even the almighty "Riddle" school was turned down as a school for Controler training. Imagine that!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually there are 14 approved schools for the air traffic control program, and ERAU is one of them.
Thank the gov'mnt for keeping the supply down. It is my understanding that there are only 5 school in the nation that train students for this important piece of the aviation pie. Even the almighty "Riddle" school was turned down as a school for Controler training. Imagine that!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually there are 14 approved schools for the air traffic control program, and ERAU is one of them.
blee256
Well-Known Member
Re: US to Hire 12,000 Air Controllers Over 10 Yrs
[ QUOTE ]
My college roommate was an ATC minor at Riddle, and now is a controller. After spending a few years exiled in Louisiana, he is now working in the LGB tower.
[/ QUOTE ]
HOw does your friend like working the tower?
[ QUOTE ]
My college roommate was an ATC minor at Riddle, and now is a controller. After spending a few years exiled in Louisiana, he is now working in the LGB tower.
[/ QUOTE ]
HOw does your friend like working the tower?
Yes, you do college work at Riddle, but it is my understanding that they did not get the actual ATC part of the schooling.
Undergraduate Degree
Associate of Applied Science,
Air Traffic Control
Admission Requirements
See Open Admission on page 76. UAA has no restrictions on age or
physical condition of students. However, students desiring employment
with the Federal Aviation Administration should be aware of FAA
employment requirements:
1.Class II medical certificate as required in FAR 61.53, 63.19, and
65.49.
2.30-year-old maximum age restriction for students anticipating
employment in terminal or en route options.
Students with low reading comprehension and math skills should first take
preparatory courses. The ATC program requires extensive reading and
interpreting of technical information.
General University Requirements
1.Complete the associate degree requirements listed on page
76.
2.Complete the Associate of Applied Science requirements (15
credits) listed on page 77. ENGL 212 is recommended.
Major Requirements
1.Complete the following required courses (43 credits):
AT 116Instrument Ground School4
AT 140Air Traffic Control History3
AT 141Aviation Weather3
AT 142Control Environment3
AT 143Air Traffic Control Regulations3
AT 144Air Traffic Control Airborne Lab2
AT 145Principles of Flight3
AT 146Air Traffic Control Intern Program4
AT 240Operations in Flight Service Station3
AT 241Airport Traffic Control3
AT 242Procedures for Control of Instrument3
Traffic (PCIT) I
AT 243Procedures for Control of Instrument3
Traffic (PCIT) II
AT 244Procedures for Control of Instrument 3
Traffic (PCIT) III
AT 245Pilot/Controller Techniques3
2.Electives3
3.A total of 61 credits is required for the degree.
Undergraduate Degree
Associate of Applied Science,
Air Traffic Control
Admission Requirements
See Open Admission on page 76. UAA has no restrictions on age or
physical condition of students. However, students desiring employment
with the Federal Aviation Administration should be aware of FAA
employment requirements:
1.Class II medical certificate as required in FAR 61.53, 63.19, and
65.49.
2.30-year-old maximum age restriction for students anticipating
employment in terminal or en route options.
Students with low reading comprehension and math skills should first take
preparatory courses. The ATC program requires extensive reading and
interpreting of technical information.
General University Requirements
1.Complete the associate degree requirements listed on page
76.
2.Complete the Associate of Applied Science requirements (15
credits) listed on page 77. ENGL 212 is recommended.
Major Requirements
1.Complete the following required courses (43 credits):
AT 116Instrument Ground School4
AT 140Air Traffic Control History3
AT 141Aviation Weather3
AT 142Control Environment3
AT 143Air Traffic Control Regulations3
AT 144Air Traffic Control Airborne Lab2
AT 145Principles of Flight3
AT 146Air Traffic Control Intern Program4
AT 240Operations in Flight Service Station3
AT 241Airport Traffic Control3
AT 242Procedures for Control of Instrument3
Traffic (PCIT) I
AT 243Procedures for Control of Instrument3
Traffic (PCIT) II
AT 244Procedures for Control of Instrument 3
Traffic (PCIT) III
AT 245Pilot/Controller Techniques3
2.Electives3
3.A total of 61 credits is required for the degree.
To qualify for entry-level air traffic control specialist positions, applicants must achieve a qualifying score on the current FAA authorized pre-employment test.
NOTE: The pre-employment test is currently ONLY offered to students in the Student Intern Program, Collegiate Training Initiative (CTI) Program, and Mid-America Resource Consortium (MARC) Program. It is NOT anticipated that this test will be open to the general public for several years.
GENERAL WORK EXPERIENCE
General work experience is defined as any progressively responsible work. For example, a person working a full-time (40 hours per week) for 3 years would meet the 3-year general work experience requirement. A person who works part-time (20 hours per week) for 6 years would also meet the 3-year general work experience requirement.)
EDUCATION
Qualifying education is successfully completed study in any field leading to a bachelor's or higher degree, at an accredited college or university
In combining education and experience, 1 year of undergraduate study (30 semester or 45 quarter hours) is equivalent to 9 months of general experience. Thus, if you had 60 semester hours or 90 quarter hours of college study, substitute for 18 months of general experience, and you would need an additional 18 months of general work experience to meet the 3-year work requirement.
Students who will complete the amount of education needed to qualify within 9 months of the test date may apply and be selected, but they must complete the study before they begin work.
NOTE: The pre-employment test is currently ONLY offered to students in the Student Intern Program, Collegiate Training Initiative (CTI) Program, and Mid-America Resource Consortium (MARC) Program. It is NOT anticipated that this test will be open to the general public for several years.
GENERAL WORK EXPERIENCE
General work experience is defined as any progressively responsible work. For example, a person working a full-time (40 hours per week) for 3 years would meet the 3-year general work experience requirement. A person who works part-time (20 hours per week) for 6 years would also meet the 3-year general work experience requirement.)
EDUCATION
Qualifying education is successfully completed study in any field leading to a bachelor's or higher degree, at an accredited college or university
In combining education and experience, 1 year of undergraduate study (30 semester or 45 quarter hours) is equivalent to 9 months of general experience. Thus, if you had 60 semester hours or 90 quarter hours of college study, substitute for 18 months of general experience, and you would need an additional 18 months of general work experience to meet the 3-year work requirement.
Students who will complete the amount of education needed to qualify within 9 months of the test date may apply and be selected, but they must complete the study before they begin work.
cessna2351
Well-Known Member
(If i goofed any of this information somebody correct me)
Thats not the current ATC curriculum at Riddle which is what I think you were meaning to post. There are really only 5 or 6 core ATC classes that you take, probably the most popular being the VFR Tower Class with the simulator. Once you complete the required courses and testing, you are 'recommended to the FAA' after your graduation if you have a 2.5 overall GPA and a 3.0 in your ATC classes (not too hard to do). Once you are selected by the FAA, you are now considered 'in process' and when it is time for hiring, you attend class at the FAA HQ in Oklahoma City for approx 6 weeks. Upon completion you are assigned to your facility, in a region of 8 or so states in you preselected choice, and off you go.
The only stipulation with the CTI program (with the 14 formentioned coalition of schools) is that once you are officially 'recommended' by your school, you have 2 years from that date to be considered 'in process' or you are sh*t out of luck after this clock-o-death expires. However this is an FAA policy and is being weighed because of the latest hiring freeze will leave alot of applicants dangerously close to 'timing out'.
Nonetheless, the news by the WSJ is music to my ears (I'm in the ATC program at Riddle with the full intention of becoming an ATCS and hopefully a freelance CFI on the side
) if it becomes to fruition because my chances of getting a job appear to be greatly improving. But we all know this is the FAA we're talking about and probably want to take everything with a grain of salt.
EDIT-
for anyone interested in the CTI program....here is the CTI site with a wealth of info.
ATCCTI
Thats not the current ATC curriculum at Riddle which is what I think you were meaning to post. There are really only 5 or 6 core ATC classes that you take, probably the most popular being the VFR Tower Class with the simulator. Once you complete the required courses and testing, you are 'recommended to the FAA' after your graduation if you have a 2.5 overall GPA and a 3.0 in your ATC classes (not too hard to do). Once you are selected by the FAA, you are now considered 'in process' and when it is time for hiring, you attend class at the FAA HQ in Oklahoma City for approx 6 weeks. Upon completion you are assigned to your facility, in a region of 8 or so states in you preselected choice, and off you go.
The only stipulation with the CTI program (with the 14 formentioned coalition of schools) is that once you are officially 'recommended' by your school, you have 2 years from that date to be considered 'in process' or you are sh*t out of luck after this clock-o-death expires. However this is an FAA policy and is being weighed because of the latest hiring freeze will leave alot of applicants dangerously close to 'timing out'.
Nonetheless, the news by the WSJ is music to my ears (I'm in the ATC program at Riddle with the full intention of becoming an ATCS and hopefully a freelance CFI on the side
EDIT-
for anyone interested in the CTI program....here is the CTI site with a wealth of info.
ATCCTI
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
I know that Hampton University in Hampton Virginia is another school that has a degreed program in ATC.
Matthew
Matthew
cessna2351
Well-Known Member
Yup..lets see if i can do this off the top of my head...
ERAU,Purdue, UND, Hampton, Mt San Antonio CC, Miami Dade, CC, Beaver County CC (can i say that?), University of Alaska, MTSU, hmm..that one school at Laguardia - college of Aeronatics or something, Daniel Webster. Ehh there are a few other ones but those are the big ones I believe.
ERAU,Purdue, UND, Hampton, Mt San Antonio CC, Miami Dade, CC, Beaver County CC (can i say that?), University of Alaska, MTSU, hmm..that one school at Laguardia - college of Aeronatics or something, Daniel Webster. Ehh there are a few other ones but those are the big ones I believe.
G
Guest
Guest
I'm thinking about this ATC stuff too. It pays good money. Even If I wouldn't be able to fly that much, I could get some money and go to ATP to finish everything up. It's gonna be hard going from a 100k+ job to a 20K regional job. But flying is my dream so I only see ATC as a way to get there.
Minnesota_Flyer
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
A big contributor to the "shortage" is the "must be under age 30" rule. How is it that such a limitation can be illegal for private industry but standard procedure for the gum-mint?
[/ QUOTE ]Eliminate that and the mandatory retirement age (57!!) and the problem is solved.
As far as the government hypocrisy . . . . I'm afraid that's here to stay.
MF
A big contributor to the "shortage" is the "must be under age 30" rule. How is it that such a limitation can be illegal for private industry but standard procedure for the gum-mint?
[/ QUOTE ]Eliminate that and the mandatory retirement age (57!!) and the problem is solved.
As far as the government hypocrisy . . . . I'm afraid that's here to stay.
MF
cessna2351
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking about this ATC stuff too. It pays good money. Even If I wouldn't be able to fly that much, I could get some money and go to ATP to finish everything up. It's gonna be hard going from a 100k+ job to a 20K regional job. But flying is my dream so I only see ATC as a way to get there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, ATCS can work long grueling hours six days a week so be prepared to find little time outside of ATP if you end up going there to build time. I have a friend at the NY Tracon who is making alot more than any other 24 year old I know (he claims 170k but he is a commercial pilot which gives you incentive pay, and of course living in NY means a high Cost of Living Expenses added on), but he works 6 days a week including many graveyard shifts.
Hypothetically speaking, I know its down the road for you but if you do end up going into ATC and do a career switch, I'd be very careful doing it. You'd be going from a comfortable lifestyle to one where a job isn't even a sure thing. Plus don't forget the age limit of 31. Personally, its a switch I wouldn't make (now i'm getting way down the road
). Flying has been my dream too which is why my goal is to be a parttime CFI. When I was younger, all I wanted to be was an airline pilot, but now that I'm older, I've decided that I want more of an "anchored" (best word to describe it in my mind) lifestyle. Plus during my PPL training, I loved talking on the radio
I'm thinking about this ATC stuff too. It pays good money. Even If I wouldn't be able to fly that much, I could get some money and go to ATP to finish everything up. It's gonna be hard going from a 100k+ job to a 20K regional job. But flying is my dream so I only see ATC as a way to get there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, ATCS can work long grueling hours six days a week so be prepared to find little time outside of ATP if you end up going there to build time. I have a friend at the NY Tracon who is making alot more than any other 24 year old I know (he claims 170k but he is a commercial pilot which gives you incentive pay, and of course living in NY means a high Cost of Living Expenses added on), but he works 6 days a week including many graveyard shifts.
Hypothetically speaking, I know its down the road for you but if you do end up going into ATC and do a career switch, I'd be very careful doing it. You'd be going from a comfortable lifestyle to one where a job isn't even a sure thing. Plus don't forget the age limit of 31. Personally, its a switch I wouldn't make (now i'm getting way down the road
cessna2351
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Eliminate that and the mandatory retirement age (57!!) and the problem is solved.
As far as the government hypocrisy . . . . I'm afraid that's here to stay.
MF
[/ QUOTE ]
Well sooner or later there is bound to be a shortage because the vast majority of the Reagan folks are getting old. If I'm a passenger, I don't want my life in the hands of a bunch of senior citizens.
As far as the age 31 limit. I think this has to do with the fact that when you get a 25 year old controller, they will work 6 more years than somebody who joins at 31. Thus, when the older person retires, they will have to spend money training a new guy. This is just in place to ensure a longer work-life of a controller and to save money on training a replacement for somebody who will work for a shorter period.
Eliminate that and the mandatory retirement age (57!!) and the problem is solved.
As far as the government hypocrisy . . . . I'm afraid that's here to stay.
MF
[/ QUOTE ]
Well sooner or later there is bound to be a shortage because the vast majority of the Reagan folks are getting old. If I'm a passenger, I don't want my life in the hands of a bunch of senior citizens.
As far as the age 31 limit. I think this has to do with the fact that when you get a 25 year old controller, they will work 6 more years than somebody who joins at 31. Thus, when the older person retires, they will have to spend money training a new guy. This is just in place to ensure a longer work-life of a controller and to save money on training a replacement for somebody who will work for a shorter period.
adreamer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
"must be under age 30" rule. How is it that such a limitation can be illegal for private industry but standard procedure for the gum-mint?
[/ QUOTE ]
One of my coworker was retired ATC. He was hired in the very first group of ATC back in 1950s. Before he retired, he was ATC manager / chief for Jacksonville ARTCC.
He explained the reason why under age 30 because it is "a young men's / women's job". The best way to describe is "In one shift of controlling, you are responsible for more people's lifes than a whole career of a doctor." He also memtioned "if you don't start ATC career early, you will more likely work at Center position (most likely in some rural area), not tower or approach position at class B airport."
adreamer
"must be under age 30" rule. How is it that such a limitation can be illegal for private industry but standard procedure for the gum-mint?
[/ QUOTE ]
One of my coworker was retired ATC. He was hired in the very first group of ATC back in 1950s. Before he retired, he was ATC manager / chief for Jacksonville ARTCC.
He explained the reason why under age 30 because it is "a young men's / women's job". The best way to describe is "In one shift of controlling, you are responsible for more people's lifes than a whole career of a doctor." He also memtioned "if you don't start ATC career early, you will more likely work at Center position (most likely in some rural area), not tower or approach position at class B airport."
adreamer