US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructors

Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

US Aviation has its place unfortunately. While some may disagree, most of us on these boards come here to talk aviation and help each other for the good of the profession; we see it how it is and inform other new JC'ers. As a former employee, I do not agree with many of their practices. My observation was the ability to take advantage of the self examination authority and the lack of care for the employees. That was more than enough for me. A special DTO woman tower controller had a freak out, caused many problems, and after 2 close calls in one week I have written off that airport entirely. Case and point, US Aviation will continue to exist as long as they have instructors who teach there and put up with the low quality of pilots turned out and management BS. The only thing they care about is the bottom dollar, not you (taken from my past experiences). I hope things have changed but I doubt they have. There place in the aviation community as far as I see is this; for a new or struggling instructor it is a great place to build time. Do expect anything more.

I am glad however that we can finally get some money back from China. Unfortunately the pilots US Aviation sends them is like the items they send us...crap. If anything I was more disappointed in the fact that we handed these certificates out, not the pay or poor QOL.

Agreed with everything. One of the things I hated and left out is how pushy they are to get students pumped out, like a cheap factory. My style as a CFI was always quality, and I never sped students through training. Using that system I never had a student fail anything in 2 1/2 years of instructing.

At USFA I had students and a number of different bosses breathing down my neck because this student hadn't soloed yet, and this student wasn't finished yet, etc... The students themselves began to get so bold at one point that they began telling me not to take a day off so they could fly more. The sad thing is that management would side with them on that one. In many ways the expected us not to take any days off, or at most one.

It didn't help that USFA would just hand your cell phone number out to students. So I had 20 different guys calling/texting me at all hours demanding flights, telling me what I should be doing, when I should be flying with them and so on. When I would tell them to stop texting me all the time they would get angry. A very poorly run system in my opinion.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Agreed with everything. One of the things I hated and left out is how pushy they are to get students pumped out, like a cheap factory. My style as a CFI was always quality, and I never sped students through training. Using that system I never had a student fail anything in 2 1/2 years of instructing.

At USFA I had students and a number of different bosses breathing down my neck because this student hadn't soloed yet, and this student wasn't finished yet, etc... The students themselves began to get so bold at one point that they began telling me not to take a day off so they could fly more. The sad thing is that management would side with them on that one. In many ways the expected us not to take any days off, or at most one.

It didn't help that USFA would just hand your cell phone number out to students. So I had 20 different guys calling/texting me at all hours demanding flights, telling me what I should be doing, when I should be flying with them and so on. When I would tell them to stop texting me all the time they would get angry. A very poorly run system in my opinion.

When did you guys work there? It sounds like some were disappointed with them in the past while others that may have been there more recently say it has gotten better. Does anyone that currently works there want to chime in??

I know that no flight school is perfect and I don't expect this place to be either. At the same time, I have a friend that works there that seems to be pretty happy with the way things are.

Anyone have an opinion on their King Airs?
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

When did you guys work there? It sounds like some were disappointed with them in the past while others that may have been there more recently say it has gotten better. Does anyone that currently works there want to chime in??

I know that no flight school is perfect and I don't expect this place to be either. At the same time, I have a friend that works there that seems to be pretty happy with the way things are.

Anyone have an opinion on their King Airs?

I left in July 2010.

They have an early model King Air...a 100 I belive or possibly a C90. Either way, it is used as a selling point for the Chinese students. Basically at the end of the Commercial rating the Chinese students are taken up 5 or more at a time and, if I'm not mistaken get to "log" a few hours in the right seat. Now, if you have any hopes of being one of the guys who flys that plane you can forget about it. There are only a few who are checked out and they are all USFA "lifers". So unless you plan on being at USFA for more than 2 years I wouldn't even worry about the King Air. It is not in your immediate future with the company.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Things need to be put straight because there is both very true and very untrue information being shared relative to the company and the working environment.

I a am recent former flight instructor for this company and have experienced several of the issues listed above and would like to set things straight.





To start: the company is based out of kdto which is now the busiest single runway airport in the nation. To some this would seem prestige but in fact it is the exact opposite. the airport is the busiest airport for a single runway due to the extensive amount of flights out of us flight academy mainly with chinese students and a few and i mean a few domestic students. being that the airport is so busy brings high risk in your everyday flights. i can back everything mentioned above about close calls and the tower controllers freaking out on a day to day basis because of stress and lack of radar in the airspace. the radar service equipment has been set up but the radar is not certified at all yet and there is no telling when it will be. Close calls are a part of the job every single day when flying in and out of the airport especially due to the lack of clear english being used across the radios. yes, the communication problems are to do with chinese students not providing accurate position reports, read backs, and basic traffic pattern call-outs. no one is perfect but communications are a must in the aviation industry and especially important in vulnerable environments such as a huge chinese flight training facility. one would ask, well why is the area so dangerous? the answer is summarized as such, one runway, no radar, students with poor radio communication, and madness in the tower when 20 c-152's are coming in for full stop landings at 2 pm and 2 c-172's requesting ils or gps approaches, and several other aircraft coming in from various locations both prop and jet.

now about the training side of things - first, one of my biggest issues were due to the self examination authority. Yes, it makes things easy but i will never and i mean never agree that these students are leaving the school or the country with the proper flight experience they deserve. This has nothing to do with the instructors because all of the instructors do the best they can to follow the guidelines that are given to them by the poor management. The management and contracts are the problem not the instructors and the students being literally pushed through like shift work. all of the chinese students are on contract for the cheapest dollar possible which results in the cheapest results. For example, the management is constantly breathing down your neck to have a barely english speaking student complete his or her private pilot license in the same amount of time that it would take a domestic student. Well, i hate to break it to you but it just quit does not happen that way. But, dont dare speak up because if you do, you flight instructor skills will be up for questioning with management. Oh, and by the way the max amount of ground time available to bill the student is 30 hours for the private certificate, that includes pre flight brief, post flight brief, and any 1 on 1 ground time you would like to conduct with your student. Again, it just does not happen like that, shoot the student barely speaks english. So, how does management respond to this issue? The answer- you will do ground with one of your student on the bill and have your other 2 or 3 students sit in on the same ground lesson (aka for free). The instrument training is a whole different story as again focusing on the english side of things and curriculums that most domestic pilots can not keep up with that are able to understand everything in the books. it all comes down to the management pushing the students through like shift work in the least amount of time and at the absolute bottom dollar. As far as the commercial training goes, the student time builds until they hit 200 hours (this even used to include your student time building at night and even solo. Just awesome! students that do not speak english very well in a 1982 c-152 time building solo at night!!! wow. after they time build to the 200 hour total time mark then they start the multi engine training in one of the 3 or 4 seneccas for 25 offers. but take this with a grain of salt because there is usually a total of 1 or 2 seneccas up from maint. at one time. After the student complete the multi comm. then they build 20 hours in one of the (2) king air c-90's. The king air instruction is done by the "cfi lifer's" with 2,000 plus hours and any hope of flying them is out of the window unless you do plan on working for the company for several years to build seniority. the fleet consist of around 16-20 c-152's, 8-10 c-172's, 3 0r 4 seneccas, 3 da-20's, 3 da-40's. 1 da-42 (a maint. pig) , and two king air's. the c-152's are all in the 1980-1984 range and 172's vary from the late 78 models up to a few 95- 97' r models. maintenance is always a issue just like anything else. the pay starts at $15 an hour (hobbs and brief time) until 200 hours dual given, $17 after until multi training and 500 dual given i believe it goes to 21 and hour. the turn over of cfi's is incredible and the stress is monumental. but, if you enjoy your boss breathing down your neck every single day about getting students done sooner and cheaper then this is the job for you!

can you build time rather fast? yes depending on your shedule
how many hours per pay check? around 50-70 (per 2 weeks)
engines dying during run-up? never happened
dangerous at time? yes
getting paid for the amount of hours spent at work and working? absolutely not

cheers!
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

getting paid for the amount of hours spent at work and working? absolutely not

I taught at XXX school and experienced the same thing. We were paid .3 for pre/post flight combined, a whopping 18 minutes. It took 5 minutes just to walk to the planes. Amazing how quickly we learned to plan, get dispatched and do a lesson in under 5 minutes. I never minded giving extra ground, waiting out wx, even dealing with delays getting an ac out of mx. That was just part of being a CFI. Got really tired though of being paid for only half the actual work I was doing. Guess thats a part of being a CFI as well.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Think I' gonna steer clear... cancelled my interview, hopefully I'll find somewhere else. I don't mind flying a ton, or even 152s, but this place honestly sounds like an accident waiting to happen, and I don't want my cert # anywhere near it when the FSDO comes around. Thanks for the heads up guys.

Also does anyone expect to be paid for the entire time they're at the airport, or to not have a second job. Unfortunately I think both of those are simply unrealistic now.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Like I said I don't expect to be paid just because I'm at the airport. I did expect to be paid when I was flying, teaching ground or being "non volunteered" for something. For instance I was always at the airport anytime a student had a checkride, start to finish and didn't expect to be paid even though it was mandatory I be there. I would have even if it wasn't policy. I think both the students and examiners appreciated it.

Then there were times like when I "volunteered" to drive students 100 miles for a checkride, wait 8 hrs for two complete rides and drive 100 miles back. Couldn't even get to company to spot me $10 for lunch AND I was yelled at for buying gas 5 cents more than they usually paid. Ugh! For the record..this was NOT at US Aviation and the people I know from there didn't have anything negative to say about it.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

When I said at the airport. I meant at the airport working, be it groundschool, pre or post, scraping ice of a wing, waiting for a late student just whatever. I always showed up for checkrides free of charge as well, never driven 100 miles to do so though.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Fsdo is around quite often and nothing usually happens. Yes the company sucks. Yes the management situation is annoying but i personally don't mind the program managers. They are just in the same boat with all the instructors. They are continually pushed by retarded owners who don't know crap about flight training and are looking to make the profit. Therefore, the instructors get pushed as well.

Some fallacies in this post I'll say...
Engine failure on run up... Never has happened to me nor heard of it. Did it happen? Maybe, but it is certainly not a common occurrence.

The controllers are nice people if you get to know them except for Brenda who is completely retarded on some days. However, if you are not used to a crowded and extremely busy pattern/ ap environment then this may not be the place for you.

Handing out certs.? Doesn't happen, we have lost a ton of customers because they complained that we were too strict.

The people who have been fired and the ones who have been there a long time are the ones who are going to rag on the company. It is certainly not for everyone however it may be an opportunity for some.

Do I want to stay here for very long? No
Would I recommend a friend? Maybe, depends on their situation...
Am I building a lot of time? Yes an I am absolutely thankful that I can.

If you apply, just know you will work long hard hours but bite it and peace out... That's what I'm doing. Am I sacrificing self respect? No, if I have to do that I'm gone...
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Regarding the engine failure during run up, since it's been brought up a couple of times in this thread:

It happened in 2 different 172s and was due to MX setting the throttle too low. So during the idle check the RPMs would just go down to zero and cut the engine. If that had happened in flight, during descent for example the results could have been less than favorable.

One 172, 8348M had it happen 3 different times. After the 3rd time I started the engine back up and personally taxied the plane,with my student in it and everything all the way to the MX hanger; shut down and handed the keys to one of the mechanics. It did happen, and it's no joke. It's the whole reason to do an idle check in the first place.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Think I' gonna steer clear... cancelled my interview, hopefully I'll find somewhere else. I don't mind flying a ton, or even 152s, but this place honestly sounds like an accident waiting to happen, and I don't want my cert # anywhere near it when the FSDO comes around. Thanks for the heads up guys.

Also does anyone expect to be paid for the entire time they're at the airport, or to not have a second job. Unfortunately I think both of those are simply unrealistic now.

Dude, you dodged a major bullet. You have no idea. Good job in not just jumping into whatever job will take you.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

To each his own.
I hope that you find something bigger and better.
I did most of my training at capital city aviation at kosu
Might see if they are hiring...
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Regarding the engine failure during run up, since it's been brought up a couple of times in this thread:

It happened in 2 different 172s and was due to MX setting the throttle too low. So during the idle check the RPMs would just go down to zero and cut the engine. If that had happened in flight, during descent for example the results could have been less than favorable.

One 172, 8348M had it happen 3 different times. After the 3rd time I started the engine back up and personally taxied the plane,with my student in it and everything all the way to the MX hanger; shut down and handed the keys to one of the mechanics. It did happen, and it's no joke. It's the whole reason to do an idle check in the first place.

As long as the engine had air, fuel, and spark it shouldn't shut down in flight---during the descent the airflow would probably keep the prop spinning which would suck the fuel and air through the engine. I wouldn't want to test my theory but I think the extra help you would get while in the air from the airflow forcing the prop to turn would keep it running(roughly) and give you time to open the throttle. Interesting to think about though.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

I wasn't gonna go there but yes most likely that's what would've happened. Idle to low is an easy fix and it's a mistake that maybe didn't show when mx set it but the conditions were right for that particular day. When I think engine failure I think mechanical malfunction or lack of air, or spark... Just a loss in translation I guess...
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Really? In defense of USFA you are actually willing to brush aside an engine quitting as not being a big deal? Really? I don't care where it happened. An engine that quits when you go to idle is a big deal, and the fact that it was a chronic problem was just an accident waiting to happen. You can defend USFA all you want, but I wouldn't down play something like the engine shutting down during idle as no big deal. If so, then I want to see you try your theory at night while flying at 2000 feet.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Dear god
I wasn't trying to downplay it and yes it is serious and no I wouldn't take off in that condition. I was simply stating when I hear engine failure on run up I don't typically think of the idle check. My bad... That's why it's on the checklist and it's done every time I am in the airplane. If it does happen or if it's even close then fine, cancel the flight take the airplane mx, get the simple fix done, and carry on.

Nor I will not test your theory, you are 100% correct in saying that it's a problem, and good job for doing the right thing. As well as thank you for clarifying that it was an idle check that went bad for you and not some sort of other kersplosion. Everyone else can make their own opinion on whether they would think of a company a viable one to work for based on a idle check that didn't work out.
I hate these freaking airplanes as much if not more than you do ( because I still fly them). I certainly don't fly airplanes that are not airworthy nor ones that I am uncomfortable flying ( which there are 1 or2) and if I say I'm not gonna fly that one then that's it; I am not forced to.

Everyone here is in the same boat with the company and by no means am I trying to defend it... Like I have said, it's not for everyone.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Really? In defense of USFA you are actually willing to brush aside an engine quitting as not being a big deal? Really? I don't care where it happened. An engine that quits when you go to idle is a big deal, and the fact that it was a chronic problem was just an accident waiting to happen. You can defend USFA all you want, but I wouldn't down play something like the engine shutting down during idle as no big deal. If so, then I want to see you try your theory at night while flying at 2000 feet.

Not trying to argue or defend, but thinking about it you guys probably did test the theory without knowing it. If it died on run-up idle check multiple times, it probably happened multiple times in the air too, but the engine never died, probably sounded rough as the air forced the prop to continue turning, which in turned caused the pilot to add a little throttle and ease the problem.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Thanks for all the feedback on Us Aviation. I won't be dropping my app off anytime soon. I came from a school like this in Florida, and learned exactly what not to do in aviation from their example. A schools function should be about producing high quality pilots, not just how fast you can get them out the door.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Agree, a windmilling prop with the throttle slightly open should fire back up. I had to hand start a 172 once when that starter went out and it doesn't take much to start. I told my student to hold the breaks tight and crossed my fingers. It was our only hope since we were in the middle on nowhere. To make matters worse we had a vacuum failure on the way back. Thankfully it was VFR. That student never finished his training, I always wondered if it was the plane or me.
 
Re: US Aviation in Denton TX, hiring 19 new flight instructo

Dear god
I wasn't trying to downplay it and yes it is serious and no I wouldn't take off in that condition. I was simply stating when I hear engine failure on run up I don't typically think of the idle check. My bad... That's why it's on the checklist and it's done every time I am in the airplane. If it does happen or if it's even close then fine, cancel the flight take the airplane mx, get the simple fix done, and carry on.

Nor I will not test your theory, you are 100% correct in saying that it's a problem, and good job for doing the right thing. As well as thank you for clarifying that it was an idle check that went bad for you and not some sort of other kersplosion. Everyone else can make their own opinion on whether they would think of a company a viable one to work for based on a idle check that didn't work out.
I hate these freaking airplanes as much if not more than you do ( because I still fly them). I certainly don't fly airplanes that are not airworthy nor ones that I am uncomfortable flying ( which there are 1 or2) and if I say I'm not gonna fly that one then that's it; I am not forced to.

Everyone here is in the same boat with the company and by no means am I trying to defend it... Like I have said, it's not for everyone.

Disregard. I actually got you mixed up with somebody else when I replied to you. Anyways, we are both in agreement with each other.
 
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