US Airways and ALPA

[Airdale]

USAir guys were thrown under the bus. Period.

How would you feel being hired at US in 1985 and being placed behind a AWA pilot hired in 2005????? I don't care what side you are on...that is wrong. Then throw in the fact that they have moved from "major" status to "LCC" status.

But: What goes around comes around I guess.

I totally agree with you, but it sucks on both sides. If you finally got hired at the Major you've been hoping for, and fly the line for 1-2 years and then give up your flying to guys on furlough, you'd be upset too. Sure the flying should belong to those guys that were furloughed and had been there since 1985, but at the same time you can't help but feel screwed.

The good thing about being a junior AWA pilot, is you can just leave. Not giving up too much by leaving your first year or two.

 

[Chris_Ford]

The good thing about being a junior AWA pilot, is you can just leave. Not giving up too much by leaving your first year or two.

Unless you just packed your family up and moved to Phoenix when you got the job.

Leaving a job, regardless of what the circumstances are, is rarely easy.

 

[Minuteman]

2. List merged by ALPA numbers. You are assigned an ALPA number at your first ALPA carrier. If you voluntarily leave your ALPA Regional airline to go to a major, you go to the bottom of that seniority list. However, if your airline subsequently merges with another ALPA carrier, you get place on the merged list by the number you got when you first joined ALPA. Why? You've been a dues-paying member of ALPA longer than that guy who was hired ahead of you at the major. Why shouldn't your merged position reflect your Union longevity?

So if/when SWA decides to buy ATA how's that supposed to work?

edit: Nevermind ... further research shows that the AA/TWA merger was where a lot of that "career expectations" and "rightful place" stuff popped up.

 

[jtrain609]

What about union members that are not ALPA? I.E. Southwest and American? American had some of the highest pay rates in the country before 9/11, and Southwest continues to. How would they be treated?

I'm not disagreeing with ya'll, and I think a true single senority list system would work much better than what we currently have, with a strong NATIONAL union instead of individual unions, but I don't see a way to make that transition.

 

[NJA_Capt]

If you finally got hired at the Major you've been hoping for, and fly the line for 1-2 years and then give up your flying to guys on furlough, you'd be upset too.

So 20 years from now when AWA merges with MESA, and they put the 1 year MESA FO ahead of you....that will still be fair, right?

 

[Velocipede]

The ALPA merger/frag policy only applies to ALPA/ALPA mergers. In an ALPA/APA merger (TWA/AA) you lawyer up and fight it out. Someone wins, someone loses. TWA lost.

 

[Baradium]

2. List merged by ALPA numbers. You are assigned an ALPA number at your first ALPA carrier. If you voluntarily leave your ALPA Regional airline to go to a major, you go to the bottom of that seniority list. However, if your airline subsequently merges with another ALPA carrier, you get place on the merged list by the number you got when you first joined ALPA. Why? You've been a dues-paying member of ALPA longer than that guy who was hired ahead of you at the major. Why shouldn't your merged position reflect your Union longevity?

Disagree. Then you'd have 1st year company guys who could get bumped ahead of people who'd been there much longer and were higher on the same seniority list. DoH has always been a major factor. Using a national list would only work if ALPA allowed all pilots to join, regardless of airline or current employment status. Then you're getting close to what the IBEW etc has where it's a set rate and you are "contracted" out to an airline for set period.



When it comes down to it, it's a merger and it's not a merger if you take all the employees from one company and layoff the ones from the other (see TWA). Just using DoH would be unfair to the AWA guys, but I do believe DoH should be a factor. I'm going to have to think about this some more. To be honest I hadn't really thought of it too much before (out of sight, out of mind).

 

[derg]

Gotta start somewhere. If they'd like to fall under the policy, that's all up for negotiation.

Pay rate aren't jack without work rules.