UPS MD-11 crash at SDF

What’s the international vs domestic mix? Have resources been pushed to serve international cargo?

MDs were pulled from international maybe a couple of years ago? Something like that. They did Hono and some mil charters and AFAIK, that's it. So I think all of the holes and thus all of the contracted plugs are domestic-shaped.

That said, the 74 is certainly being beaten into some domestic-shaped holes, at least over peak.
 
I thought I knew the definition of freaking cheap, but that takes the cake!

And yes, it’s very similar. So what happens is, either the depot refuses to repair/replace stuff that is outside their contract, which the line units complain about; since now the depot schedule gets backed up with all their other aircraft they have, becuase it wasn’t planned for. It’s frustrating to see, especially when this crap causes headaches and delays for other units and their planes.
I don't want to create thread drift, but my experience with FCF/ACFs (check flights) after the C-5 "M Model" modification was much of what you echoed. The airplane was torn the hell apart but Lockheed was only "responsible" for the items that were being removed/modified/etc. We had an AF team there to "monitor" the work, but it was a • show.

I was part of the DCMA team that did the flight testing and ultimately the "buy back" for Uncle Sam. The number of things that were missed during the final inspection(s) by Lockheed was mindboggling. Even after going through 5 levels of inspections before being handing back to the government to start our acceptance, we will STILL find complete 5 foot long panels just missing or missing most of the fasteners...ON THE BOTTOM OF THE WING and PLAINLY visible to anyone with better than 20/400 vision. It was eye opening and very scary. I enjoyed the mission, but got very tired of the AF program office just saying "It's OK, we will buy it like that".

There is a lengthy and scathing IG report on the whole mess and many of our complaints were substantiated but nothing happened. Well, except LM stock went from $63 when I got there to $495 today. :/
 
MDs were pulled from international maybe a couple of years ago? Something like that. They did Hono and some mil charters and AFAIK, that's it. So I think all of the holes and thus all of the contracted plugs are domestic-shaped.

That said, the 74 is certainly being beaten into some domestic-shaped holes, at least over peak.

So when do you start EWR turns? I’ll start working mids if I have to.
 
MDs were pulled from international maybe a couple of years ago? Something like that. They did Hono and some mil charters and AFAIK, that's it. So I think all of the holes and thus all of the contracted plugs are domestic-shaped.

That said, the 74 is certainly being beaten into some domestic-shaped holes, at least over peak.
With all due respect to A300Capt, it was always a broke ass plane. They kept it domestic so they could recover the volume easier when it broke. They had issues with landings (Fedex turtle crash at NRT) that required special training. I always cringed on landings when I was jumpseating but they always greased it on when I was around. But, to a man, everyone who flew the thing loved it. Much like I loved the 76. Long live the Millennium Falcon (in our memories).
 
I didn’t post this earlier because I didn’t want to speculate, but the FAA/NTSB has this excellent page on the AA191 accident lessons learned, which goes into depth on the design of the DC-10/MD-11 engine 1 and 3 pylon:

To be honest I was a little surprised to learn how the DC-10/MD-11 pylon attachment works, because it’s a relatively uncommon load path compared to Boeing and Airbus pylons which use a more truss strut-braced style.

On the DC-10/MD-11 pylon, the forward attach fitting is a single integral frame/bulkhead that penetrates up into the wing box and picks up a sort of triangular shaped fitting that bolts into the forward wing spar. This presumably reacts vertical loads and side loads and moments. There looks to be a fwd-aft oriented linkage that presumably takes thrust loads from the engine, but it only shows up in one picture. The aft attach fitting is a lug and clevis style fitting, with the lug on the pylon side and the clevis on the wing side. The way it’s oriented, it would primarily be taking vertical load and reacting the pitching moment due to engine thrust along the spanwise axis of the wing.

Pylon attach cutaway:
View attachment 86905

Stand alone pylon structure:
View attachment 86906

Pylon attach details with a crudely drawn aircraft coordinate system. Looks to me like point C takes thrust load (force in the X-direction, Fx), A and B and their associated bolts on the wing side to the forward spar take forces in the y and z directions (Fy, Fz) and moments Mx (B probably takes most of the load with A being there to couple out Mx), and the aft attach fitting can take forces in the y and z directions (Fy, Fz) which working together with the forward fitting reacts moments My, Mz. My educated guess would be that aft fitting is primarily loaded in the Fz direction and couples out the My moment due to the thrust line of the engine offset from the wing:

View attachment 86907

Finally, the lessons learned document has this view of the aft lug and clevis attach fitting, noting that the forward and aft surfaces of the lug need to be inspected for cracks:
View attachment 86908

These forward and aft faces of the aft attach lug on the pylon side are exactly where the failure occurred on both the AA DC-10 and the UPS MD-11! To me, this seems a bit like lightning striking the same place twice…

Note that lug and clevis fittings are extremely common in aerospace on everything from control surface hinges to main landing gear trunnions. The lug side of the fitting gets a spherical bearing to allow for some misalignment in the assembly without transferring bending moments:
View attachment 86909

Note that simply pulling the bolt and putting a borescope or eddy current probe in the hole is NOT ENOUGH, because the spherical bearing is in the way. The two halves of the assembly must be physically separated to be able to fully inspect the faces of the lug for cracks or damage. This means unless the gaps were large enough (which I find highly doubtful), the pylon had to physically be removed from the airplane to fully inspect the lug surfaces. Further, there could be cracks in the bore between the spherical bearing and the lug that you would only be able to see by pressing out the spherical bearing and replacing it, which causes further opportunity to inadvertently damage the lug. It sounds like this is what happened with AA191 - they replaced the spherical bearing on the aft pylon attach lug, then accidentally caused damage to the freshly repaired lug while re-installing the engine/pylon with the forklift, and weren’t able to inspect the area and see the problem after installation.

Finally lugs fail in a couple common ways. The failure shown in the NTSB photos from the UPS accident is text book net-section (net-tension) failure, likely due to cracks that originated at the edge of the hole and worked their way to the edges of the lug.
View attachment 86911

I think @Roger Roger is right on with his questions. Is this going to end up being another case of inadvertent damage caused during removal and replacement of the lug spherical bearing similar to AA191, or is this aft pylon attach lug truly undersized in MD/Boeing’s fatigue analysis, requiring a re-design of the part? Either way, I find it HIGHLY suspicious that the same part failed in exactly the same way in 1979 and 2025. Design for inspectability and maintainability are both important factors in addition to fatigue. Quoting @knot4u for his past NDT inspection experience, it really looks to me like the upper faces of the lug sandwiched inside the wing clevis are in an uninspectable region, unless that gap is large enough to get a borescope or NDT probe in.

Given the extreme prevalence of lug and clevis designs in aerospace, this DC-10/MD-11 pylon design seems to be an outlier in a bad way, and I would be highly suspicious of all of them until we get more information on the status of the whole fleet. Thinking through some possible solutions, you could thicken the lug to increase the fatigue life, but this would cause a redesign of the clevis and a very costly retrofit of the wing structure to remove and replace the clevis fitting in addition to retrofitting the pylon. You could change to a higher strength material on the lug (from aluminum to titanium or steel for example), paying a weight penalty. This would require removal of the engine and pylon and retrofit of the pylon. Or you could increase the frequency of inspection, possibly resulting in an AD that removes the engine and pylon and potentially presses out the spherical bearing to inspect the bearing surface in the lug, with increasing frequency. None of this bodes well for the continued operation of the MD-11 fleet, but I guess we’ll wait and see.
Couple corrections on this:
First, the part that failed on AAL191 was the bulkhead that the lugs bolt to, not the lugs themselves.
IMG_3331.jpeg

Second, that inspection picture appears to me to be looking for cracks in the bearing, not the lugs.

Will be interesting to find out what initiated the fatigue cracking in 2976. Pressing a bearing that big in and out (I’m assuming it’s a press fit) is definitely the kind of process that could produce a stress riser. Also will be interesting to see what the inspection looks like and what is found on the rest of the fleet. Based on my experience managing and observing NDT on little airplanes, to eddy current it you would have to remove the engine, remove the pylon, press out the bearing, and eddy current the inside of the bores. Then now that it’s going to be such an emphasis area, how do you re-inspect it once the new bearing is in to make sure nothing was damaged during install? Maybe it’s a situation where one would have to chill the bearing until it goes in with a push fit. Or, maybe a surface probe eddy current would be able to see deep enough to pick up a crack without pulling the bearing. Or, the best option, perhaps they could develop an x-ray NDT procedure to look at it on-wing. Lots of questions for the engineers and the maintenance and inspection folks.
 
I don't want to create thread drift, but my experience with FCF/ACFs (check flights) after the C-5 "M Model" modification was much of what you echoed. The airplane was torn the hell apart but Lockheed was only "responsible" for the items that were being removed/modified/etc. We had an AF team there to "monitor" the work, but it was a • show.

I was part of the DCMA team that did the flight testing and ultimately the "buy back" for Uncle Sam. The number of things that were missed during the final inspection(s) by Lockheed was mindboggling. Even after going through 5 levels of inspections before being handing back to the government to start our acceptance, we will STILL find complete 5 foot long panels just missing or missing most of the fasteners...ON THE BOTTOM OF THE WING and PLAINLY visible to anyone with better than 20/400 vision. It was eye opening and very scary. I enjoyed the mission, but got very tired of the AF program office just saying "It's OK, we will buy it like that".

There is a lengthy and scathing IG report on the whole mess and many of our complaints were substantiated but nothing happened. Well, except LM stock went from $63 when I got there to $495 today. :/
MRO operations are the same military, civilian, small airplanes, big airplanes… same • different number of zeroes on the bill. Dealt with the same stuff with Caravans and Beavers.
 
Couple corrections on this:
First, the part that failed on AAL191 was the bulkhead that the lugs bolt to, not the lugs themselves.
View attachment 86919
Second, that inspection picture appears to me to be looking for cracks in the bearing, not the lugs.

Interesting, sorry for the mistake. I was going off this picture in the lessons learned doc for section A-A of the pylon lug:

IMG_3266.jpeg


Note the spot I marked up in red. This looks like a chunk is missing from the face of the lug. But I agree the arrows point to the faces of the spherical bearing.

One other very important point I missed in the last post is the pylon lug is actually TWO lugs, doubled up, with a common spherical bearing between them. This would have been done due to this being a fracture critical area, to create a redundant load path if one of the lugs failed. So this fatigue issue was bad enough that both lugs would have needed to have fatigue cracks which propagated across the net section of the lugs until they both failed. Crazy this wasn’t seen in any inspections, but like you say below if the cracks originate at the edge of the hole bore you would need to press the bearing out to see it, or wait for it to show up on the face of the lug in the basically uninspectable clevis.

IMG_3267.png


Will be interesting to find out what initiated the fatigue cracking in 2976. Pressing a bearing that big in and out (I’m assuming it’s a press fit) is definitely the kind of process that could produce a stress riser.

Agreed.

Also will be interesting to see what the inspection looks like and what is found on the rest of the fleet. Based on my experience managing and observing NDT on little airplanes, to eddy current it you would have to remove the engine, remove the pylon, press out the bearing, and eddy current the inside of the bores. Then now that it’s going to be such an emphasis area, how do you re-inspect it once the new bearing is in to make sure nothing was damaged during install?

Exactly my thoughts as well. And repeatedly pressing out the bearing for inspections may do more harm than good because you risk damaging the lugs and creating stress risers each time. If those lugs are 7000 series aluminum, replacing them with steel or Ti would at least make them a bit more resilient for fatigue and increase the margin of safety on the design loads.

Maybe it’s a situation where one would have to chill the bearing until it goes in with a push fit.

I’ve seen regular straight bushings/bearings shrink-fit with liquid nitrogen, but do you know if you can do that with sphericals? Or do the two parts bind up?

Or, maybe a surface probe eddy current would be able to see deep enough to pick up a crack without pulling the bearing. Or, the best option, perhaps they could develop an x-ray NDT procedure to look at it on-wing. Lots of questions for the engineers and the maintenance and inspection folks.

Agreed - if they could X-ray with the pylon on the airplane that would be ideal. Hell, since I realized the pylon side is two lugs sistered together, there may be a chance where cracks end up forming on the faces between the parts, so they might want to X-ray the pylon off the airplane anyway. It’s a costly slippery slope.

I feel for the pilots and mechanics, but learning more about the design I feel for the MD engineers as well. There was clearly a recognition that this was a critical joint which is why they doubled up the lugs and made them fail-safe. But you can’t stop a crack you can’t see, and the fact that both parts cracked in half in the same location before anybody had time to catch the cracks in an inspection is pretty shocking.
 
Couple corrections on this:
First, the part that failed on AAL191 was the bulkhead that the lugs bolt to, not the lugs themselves.
View attachment 86919
Second, that inspection picture appears to me to be looking for cracks in the bearing, not the lugs.

Will be interesting to find out what initiated the fatigue cracking in 2976. Pressing a bearing that big in and out (I’m assuming it’s a press fit) is definitely the kind of process that could produce a stress riser. Also will be interesting to see what the inspection looks like and what is found on the rest of the fleet. Based on my experience managing and observing NDT on little airplanes, to eddy current it you would have to remove the engine, remove the pylon, press out the bearing, and eddy current the inside of the bores. Then now that it’s going to be such an emphasis area, how do you re-inspect it once the new bearing is in to make sure nothing was damaged during install? Maybe it’s a situation where one would have to chill the bearing until it goes in with a push fit. Or, maybe a surface probe eddy current would be able to see deep enough to pick up a crack without pulling the bearing. Or, the best option, perhaps they could develop an x-ray NDT procedure to look at it on-wing. Lots of questions for the engineers and the maintenance and inspection folks.
I've accomplished these sort of detailed inspections on some jets, none of them as heavy as an MD-11, but heavy enough. I've removed the MLG on enough large cabin Gulfstreams to get access to the trunnion for inspection that I just got bored (there's a punchline, just wait) with it. After you remove the gear you remove the bearings from the forward and aft MLG trunnion using a port-a-power (it's a portable hydraulic ram that can either push or pull depending on which direction you point it), the bearings are held in place by swages on both sides, special Loc-Tite and a serious press fit. The rear bearing is pretty easy as I recall it just sort of slides out without much fuss, the forward bearing can be an issue, it's a spherical that sits in a bore in the main spar of the wing, it has to be spherical because the forward trunnion pin on the gear needs to pivot to allow the gear to be removed or installed and if it was just an absolute straight line between the fwd and aft mounts things would wear out very quickly during normal operation due to weight, temperature or a rowdy pilot. Once you get the bearings out the first thing you do is visually inspect the holes the bearings just vacated. Sometimes you'd find just a little surface corrosion and you'd contact Gulfstream Tech Ops and they'd open a disposition (a $1500 phone call) and ask for some pictures. You'd dutifully send them the images and they'd respond with a request to use some Scotchbrite to remove the surface corrosion by hand and then measure the bore and report back, sometimes it was no big deal and they'd come back and say it was good, just alodine the bore and install and swage a new bearing (that port-a-power would get a workout, not as much as inspecting the vert stabilizer attach points) IAW the SRM and everyone was happy. But sometimes the corrosion was a little deeper (I'm looking at you S Florida) and you'd have to move onto calling in Gulfstream folks with their equipment to accurately line ream and oversize the bore in the spar. Understand the entire time all of this debacle is happening the airplane is up on jacks with the landing gear removed. So they'll start with the first oversize and if the corrosion is still present they move on to the second oversize. Keep in mind you can only cut metal out of the spar three times because they never built new bearings bigger than that. If the second pass still reveals corrosion you start eating your fingernails because I'm unsure what happens after that. Luckily on the several occasions we when we went to the third cut the corrosion cleaned up and then we called for NDT folks and their eddy current inspection equipment and after we got the all clear we prepped the bores, installed new oversize bearings (yes they were still a press fit and we'd soak them in liquid nitrogen for a few hours before installation, might've used some heat lamps on the spar as well), swage them, reinstall and lube the gear, test it and kick it out the door. I've never looked at an MD-11 pylon mount but what I just described was one airplane with all hands on deck and it'd end up taking about a month.
 
I guess I never realized there were so many hatters of it as well.

Not me. I think it's a cool airplane, and if it sticks around, gets fixed properly, and upgrades go junior because people are still afraid of it, I'd be delighted to upgrade on it. But they objectively are not a lot of fun to ride around in the back of.
 
Not me. I think it's a cool airplane, and if it sticks around, gets fixed properly, and upgrades go junior because people are still afraid of it, I'd be delighted to upgrade on it. But they objectively are not a lot of fun to ride around in the back of.
Better than the •box.
 
Clearly those that Fly(flew) this airplane have an affinity for it, I guess I never realized there were so many hatters of it as well.
I love it. If I could fly her for the next 21 years of my career I would but that was never gonna happen.
 
I've accomplished these sort of detailed inspections on some jets, none of them as heavy as an MD-11, but heavy enough. I've removed the MLG on enough large cabin Gulfstreams to get access to the trunnion for inspection that I just got bored (there's a punchline, just wait) with it. After you remove the gear you remove the bearings from the forward and aft MLG trunnion using a port-a-power (it's a portable hydraulic ram that can either push or pull depending on which direction you point it), the bearings are held in place by swages on both sides, special Loc-Tite and a serious press fit. The rear bearing is pretty easy as I recall it just sort of slides out without much fuss, the forward bearing can be an issue, it's a spherical that sits in a bore in the main spar of the wing, it has to be spherical because the forward trunnion pin on the gear needs to pivot to allow the gear to be removed or installed and if it was just an absolute straight line between the fwd and aft mounts things would wear out very quickly during normal operation due to weight, temperature or a rowdy pilot. Once you get the bearings out the first thing you do is visually inspect the holes the bearings just vacated. Sometimes you'd find just a little surface corrosion and you'd contact Gulfstream Tech Ops and they'd open a disposition (a $1500 phone call) and ask for some pictures. You'd dutifully send them the images and they'd respond with a request to use some Scotchbrite to remove the surface corrosion by hand and then measure the bore and report back, sometimes it was no big deal and they'd come back and say it was good, just alodine the bore and install and swage a new bearing (that port-a-power would get a workout, not as much as inspecting the vert stabilizer attach points) IAW the SRM and everyone was happy. But sometimes the corrosion was a little deeper (I'm looking at you S Florida) and you'd have to move onto calling in Gulfstream folks with their equipment to accurately line ream and oversize the bore in the spar. Understand the entire time all of this debacle is happening the airplane is up on jacks with the landing gear removed. So they'll start with the first oversize and if the corrosion is still present they move on to the second oversize. Keep in mind you can only cut metal out of the spar three times because they never built new bearings bigger than that. If the second pass still reveals corrosion you start eating your fingernails because I'm unsure what happens after that. Luckily on the several occasions we when we went to the third cut the corrosion cleaned up and then we called for NDT folks and their eddy current inspection equipment and after we got the all clear we prepped the bores, installed new oversize bearings (yes they were still a press fit and we'd soak them in liquid nitrogen for a few hours before installation, might've used some heat lamps on the spar as well), swage them, reinstall and lube the gear, test it and kick it out the door. I've never looked at an MD-11 pylon mount but what I just described was one airplane with all hands on deck and it'd end up taking about a month.
Paragraphs.
 
Clearly those that Fly(flew) this airplane have an affinity for it, I guess I never realized there were so many hatters of it as well.
Definitely not me either. Just searching for catharsis in trying to better understand what happened. Hope they come up with a fix and she’s only temporarily grounded.

I don’t understand your 76F hate. Jumpseated on those at purple a bunch of times, it’s great. It’s cozy up there, we’ll go through bid packets together. :)

To quote @mikecweb, “•-ter in the cockpit!”
 
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