Upgrade training

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
How's upgrade training at your airline? Before Captain OE, what is is the process? Looks like I'll have 5 days of upgrade ground school and 8 sim sessions. I'm a little surprised it seems to be that long, but I'll gladly take each and every day of training they offer. Ground school will be on company property but company sim is full so I'll be off to Miami Airbus Americas.

Because I want to log correctly and update apps accordingly, when can you officially log TPIC? On your Captain OE trips I know I'd fly left seat, the checkairman right seat. Who signs the release, I assume the OE Captain? What about the fed ride, do you sign the release as the upgrade applicant? Is any of the time loggable as PIC, or do you pretty much have to wait until fully signed off on OE, fed ride, and thrown to the line as reserve CA? I don't have ego over any time logging, I just want to make sure I do it right. Sorry, first upgrade so not sure how all this works.
 

Nark

Macho Superpilot
You’re still the FO until you complete OE AND!!!!!!!! Fed Ride.

First time you log PIC is with the training wheels completely removed.

For us: 1 day of recurrent (distance learning completed prior to, just like re-current). 1 of leadership charm school.
1 CPT session.
3 sim sessions
PC as captain
LOFT

Then wait for OE schedule (includes a Latin America route qual)

Fed ride/ Lin check.

Viola, captain.


I don’t know your training house, but we fly the same bird. Checkride is exactly the PC. The same when I was an FO, just a funnier eyesite.

Knowing the “operational” answers as to not delay the push is kind of the end game. Study fuel req, when do you need a new release, validation times, security etc...
I’m sure your shop has some good gouge.

Good luck dude, it’s worth the butt pain.
 

nimslow

Well-Known Member
At my shop, you do the full long course, even if you upgrade on the same equipment.

24 hours programmed for home systems study (probably takes more like 40 hours), I think it was 10 or 12 days of ground school/virtula procedures trainer stuff, and 9 or 10 sims, including the MV and LOE. We do a 100 question "electronic systems validation" on the computer, instead of an oral. That comes before the sims.

OE is 25 hours, including the fed ride.

International is more training, depending on what equipment, and what divisions you need to be qualed in. Latin America/Latin Terrain was two days ground, and two legs with a check airman, to one of our Latin terrain cities.

We have a three day "captains leadership" course, but that usually comes months after you actually start flying the line as a captain.
 

Jordan93

Well-Known Member
5 days of ground, 1 FTD, 2 maneuvers training, MV, 2 LOFT, LOE. From start to finish takes about 3 weeks at my shop. I believe they extended the footprint now to 7 days of ground and added a maneuvers training and LOFT. You’ll still sign as SIC during OE. Fed ride is easy. He’s just there to make sure you’re making progress. Log PIC after the Fed ride and line check. Make sure you know the FOM cold.
 

woodreau

Well-Known Member
Weirdest thing I thought after finishing upgrade OE but not yet having 100 hours PIC in the aircraft.

I Can’t dispatch anywhere if the weather is 200-1/2, because my mins are 300-1. But if I do a Cat 3 autoland to Cat 1 minimums instead of doing the Cat 1 ILS, I’m magically able to go to that 200-1/2 airport I can’t dispatch to as a high mins captain. So for my first week after finishing OE, I’m doing autolands everywhere and all of my the FOs are like “cool, I’ve never done autolands before.”

Brought back nightmares of 200-250hr FOs telling me:
(1) it was their first flight in icing
(2) they’d never worked a radar to go around thunderstorm or rather they just sat deer in the headlights as I’m working my way through weather;
(3) they logged actual instrument for the first time
(4) they’d never shot an approach to 200-1/2 before.
(5) the FO who told me we couldn’t go to that 200-1/2 airport because it was below his personal minimums. At first I thought he was joking, but he was serious and I asked if he had a special check ride where he only shot his approaches in the sim to his personal minimums or 200-1/2 like everyone else.
 

Soku39

Well-Known Member
Appreciate how many sims you have, I thought our footprint was overkill as well, but was glad to have two weeks worth of rides. Definitely wen't home in between the two sessions of 4 though.
 

Autothrust Blue

Commander Air Group, BSG-75
Brought back nightmares of 200-250hr FOs telling me:
(1) it was their first flight in icing
(2) they’d never worked a radar to go around thunderstorm or rather they just sat deer in the headlights as I’m working my way through weather;
(3) they logged actual instrument for the first time
(4) they’d never shot an approach to 200-1/2 before.
(5) the FO who told me we couldn’t go to that 200-1/2 airport because it was below his personal minimums. At first I thought he was joking, but he was serious and I asked if he had a special check ride where he only shot his approaches in the sim to his personal minimums or 200-1/2 like everyone else.
FYI, not much has changed at ATP mins.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I forgot, there is 27.5 hrs of homestudy online CBT. 5 days of "In Command" Ground school. 8 simulator sessions which includes the check, LOFT, CATIII. Then 25 hrs OE which will be 2 trips with separate ckairman, fed ride, and line check.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Weirdest thing I thought after finishing upgrade OE but not yet having 100 hours PIC in the aircraft.

I Can’t dispatch anywhere if the weather is 200-1/2, because my mins are 300-1. But if I do a Cat 3 autoland to Cat 1 minimums instead of doing the Cat 1 ILS, I’m magically able to go to that 200-1/2 airport I can’t dispatch to as a high mins captain. So for my first week after finishing OE, I’m doing autolands everywhere and all of my the FOs are like “cool, I’ve never done autolands before.”
You really had that many bad weather days after IOE? Slim odds I would imagine..Haven't done an auto land in some time either....
 

woodreau

Well-Known Member
Just the marine layer that kept LAX at 200-1/2 - normal cat I mins for everyone else - going into LAX that first week after IOE. Since I was just doing out and backs out of LAX, I just did the autolands in LAX that I couldn't dispatch to without the exemption. Haven't done any autolands since.
 

Bandit_Driver

Gold Member
right to left in same plane is a short course here... Long course if switching equipment...

OE
LINECHECK AND FED RIDE
Now you can log PIC
 

Autothrust Blue

Commander Air Group, BSG-75
Just the marine layer that kept LAX at 200-1/2 - normal cat I mins for everyone else - going into LAX that first week after IOE. Since I was just doing out and backs out of LAX, I just did the autolands in LAX that I couldn't dispatch to without the exemption. Haven't done any autolands since.
One of the most pointless trips I ever flew was this 3 day with Calgary and DFW overnights right after we got the 175. We were both CAT II NA (because why should we be able to use all the capabilities?) -and- the captain was high minimums -and- so were the captains bringing us our airplanes in both YYC and DFW, where it was 200-1/2.

I think we flew two legs on day 1 and then just deadheaded around on days 2/3.
 
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