Unnatural Reaction to Stress

Though I do enjoy your optimism.

You enjoy it or find it comical? :)

Here is one example, a student we I got who was over 40 hours pre solo. His lessons looked like this, 1-10 the typical basics, 10-40 landing practice. Every folder of every student I have looked at over 100 hours (only about 10 but still so far 100 percent) the student repeated lessons sure. But those repeats occurred on later lessons from landings and beyond, none of their folders reflected a restart and repeat of the original material.

See I had the pleasure when I was growing up of spending about 5 or so years working on about a bi weekly basis with special needs children. They had issues ranging from basic ADD to low functioning autism children I couldn't touch without them flipping out. Everyone can be taught, you just need to find the right methods to teach them IMO.

Sure people with major learning disabilities would be unable to correlate the complexities of the flight environment. But basic flight training can be taught without going beyond the knowledge level of an 8th grader, to put it in perspective that is a 13 year old.

I am not saying the CFI is dumb and just fails miserably, it is the unfortunate end result when a pilot is told to start teaching with the minimal training provided by the FOI. The information in the FOI is wonderful and from the general attitude at my local FBO and on forums that knowledge is basically disregarded.

It is our job as teachers to discover how a student learns, there are 7 commonly agreed upon learning styles which include: Visual, Verbal, Logical, Bodily, Musical, Interpersonal, and Intrapersonal. Now the typical male pilot falls into the category of logical and visual which therefore causes them to adjust their lessons in that manner. These people also typically fall into that of intrapersonal as pilots are always analyzing ourselves and our actions.

Well 50 percent of the population (more commonly the women), approximation, fall into the verbal and interpersonal which causes a problem. This interpersonal person is trying to see things from the CFI's point of view who is likely gearing the information to a logical spacial sense which this person will likely not understand. To make it simple, the difference is a logical versus a creative mind set.

There are further differences when you look at styles of teaching for western versus eastern civilizations. The chinese tend to look at the big picture and describe it first, then break it down, seeing a fish tank they would describe the color of the water, size of the tank and so on. Americans tend to learn in reverse (part of the reason we suck at math and 8th graders in China are doing calculus) and look at the smaller picture, in the above example the American would describe a specific fish in the tank first.

These examples merely brush the surface of what a teacher learns and thinks about when preparing to teach a student. Point is I don't blame the CFIs I blame the system which is probably why major flight colleges are now looking for "career CFIs" and efforts are being made to make teachers into pilots instead of pilots into teachers.


Multiple intelligences/learning styles: http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm

I can't be to far off, "To this end, U.S. Representative Chris Lee, R-Clarence, NY along with Representative Louis Slaughter, R-Rochester, NY, and Representative Brian Higgins, D-Buffalo, NY have recently introduced an amendment to the FAA Reauthorization Bill directing that the GAO conduct a study of the flight training industry and airline pilot hiring practices."



On a final note, I would take your student back to lesson one and spend ample time in the practice area learning pure basics. Screw the radios and checklists and having them takeoff and land, all these things take brain capacity that could be better used to learn basic flight. Obviously whatever was done the first time didn't work so do it differently, if the student is willing to pay for it then why not it will give you a great learning experience as well.

Research and teach yourself how to teach them, really look at what each lessons goals are and maybe cut those goals in half working to solidify each fundamental step instead of giving up. Have them take a quiz to discover which learning style(s) they fall into and gear the lesson content around that style of learning, you might find the student isn't as dumb as you think.

Sorry for the rant I got a little carried away like usual and hey if you do try harder with them good luck.
 
On a final note, I would take your student back to lesson one and spend ample time in the practice area learning pure basics. Screw the radios and checklists and having them takeoff and land, all these things take brain capacity that could be better used to learn basic flight. Obviously whatever was done the first time didn't work so do it differently, if the student is willing to pay for it then why not it will give you a great learning experience as well.

I agree with you. If a student doesn't mind taking the extra time and money, I'll keep working with them. However, I'll tell them that they are NOT going to be done in 40 hours, or maybe even 80, and they need to evaluate their desire, and resources in light of those facts.

If going back to square one and taking this extra time is not an option (as it isn't in the OPs situation) you need to stop the bleeding ASAP. Even though it may be painful for everyone.
 
You enjoy it or find it comical? :)

you might find the student isn't as dumb as you think.

I am enjoying it.

No, he really is a dumb as I think. He did too many drugs when he was younger and is now crispy. (all speculation on my part)

Trust me, the basics were covered and continue to be covered

The last three lessons have only consisted of a series of out-and-backs to and from the practice area.
Again, basics are being covered.
Those three flights, we averaged four-five out and backs per flight. Still after the third lesson he still doesn't have it to an acceptable point. He is better, but not safe.

Oh and once he told me that if the Olympics had a "pre-flight" event, that he would take the gold.

wat.

If you want to finish him up I will send him your way, but if things don't get better quick, he is out because it is a safety of flight issue.
 
Oh and once he told me that if the Olympics had a "pre-flight" event, that he would take the gold.

wat.

Most students dislike the preflight and think it's excessive and dumb -- from their point of view, how often do they find water in the gas or something major broken on any of the control surfaces? Almost never.

So I try to slip things in, like taping over the air filter, pulling circuit breakers before they get to the plane, etc. (usually I remember to undo what I've done...:insane:).

It seems to help a little -- they take it as a challenge to find something wrong. But I've had those "Olympic pre-flight" comments too.
 
So I try to slip things in, like taping over the air filter, pulling circuit breakers before they get to the plane, etc. (usually I remember to undo what I've done...:insane:).

It seems to help a little -- they take it as a challenge to find something wrong. But I've had those "Olympic pre-flight" comments too.

I made "gotcha" tag for my students.

I took a "remove before flight" ribbon key chain, and welded a alligator clip to the ring. When we've reached the point where I just hang back and watch, I'll clip the tag to a part of the airplane where it should catch their attention if they are being observant. The tip of the bottom prop blade is a good spot, so is the elevator trim tab pushrod.
 
I agree with you. If a student doesn't mind taking the extra time and money, I'll keep working with them. However, I'll tell them that they are NOT going to be done in 40 hours, or maybe even 80, and they need to evaluate their desire, and resources in light of those facts.

If going back to square one and taking this extra time is not an option (as it isn't in the OPs situation) you need to stop the bleeding ASAP. Even though it may be painful for everyone.

Completely agree, that is exactly what I was referring to. Develop a game plan basically and try to be as straight forward and honest as you can be. I even tell students like this that they will be paying for me to learn how they learn as well and be sure they understand that. I have lost a few students to this but I would much rather loose a student then sign one off and read about them in the paper.
 
If you want to finish him up I will send him your way, but if things don't get better quick, he is out because it is a safety of flight issue.

I am always up for a challenge if he is in the NJ area. I actually try to get students like this so I can study what needs to be done to get them through so bring it on baby. lol

There is no finishing up for these students with me though, there is one option, restart, period. period.
 
Some people simply shouldn't be behind the controls of an aircraft. I'm not just talking inability to perform, I'm talking baseline attitude and such, as the OP describes. The way his student is, he doesn't meet the "prerequsites" for being a pilot........fix the anger management, learn to handle some basic stess management skills, gain some personal SA, and then we'll talk.

Again, flying isn't for everyone. It's as simple as that.

He would've been booted from military flight training a long time ago.

shdw: You're sacrificing flight safety of himself as well as others in your quest to try and "help him along". We're not talking about a bunch of slow-learining kids here......we're talking about someone in control of a machine that can kill them as well as others. You have a responsibility to insure someone doesn't "slip by" just because you feel sorry for them, or you want the $$$ coming in, or you think you can fix them.

You ever see the female who will never leave the craphead boyfriend because "I know he's a craphead, but I can fix him......I can rescue him!" That's the same way of thinking you're bringing here, and sometimes.......more often that not......adults can't be changed in their baseline personality.
 
shdw: You're sacrificing flight safety of himself as well as others in your quest to try and "help him along". We're not talking about a bunch of slow-learining kids here......we're talking about someone in control of a machine that can kill them as well as others. You have a responsibility to insure someone doesn't "slip by" just because you feel sorry for them, or you want the $$$ coming in, or you think you can fix them.

You ever see the female who will never leave the craphead boyfriend because "I know he's a craphead, but I can fix him......I can rescue him!" That's the same way of thinking you're bringing here, and sometimes.......more often that not......adults can't be changed in their baseline personality.

If it didn't change they wouldn't get a sign off plain and simple. But I am more than willing to work with anyone for however long it takes both attitude management and aircraft training if thats what it takes. I view it as an invaluable learning opportunity.

I never said I would just sign him off, just that I would try and help. You are talking of a different student now though, I said that to Doug not the original poster. But I would take the original posters student in a second as well but he has to go back to Poland so that isn't very likely.

If you haven't realized in my post I love technical stuff both engineering and psychological even though I cannot stand psych classes I love reading the stuff on my own. Students like this give me the chance to test theories, figure out what works, and ultimately learn and improve myself as a CFI. That being said I will never turn down the chance to try and teach the "unteachable" student.
 
I am but a lowly 35 hour student, but what would you seasoned instructors consider to be "a walking NTSB report"? I feel like a safe and competent pilot most of the time, but I'm still curious.


I always feel morbid because I'm always reading NTSB reports, but I really just want to know why everytime so I don't make the same mistakes... Though, much too often I don't understand "why"
 
I always feel morbid because I'm always reading NTSB reports, but I really just want to know why everytime so I don't make the same mistakes... Though, much too often I don't understand "why"

The fact that you are taking the time to read and research accident reports shows a good start to flight discipline. Knowledge is power and the more you study, research, and try to understand the flight environment the safer a pilot you are.

The "walking NTSB reports" are pilots who think that the 40 hours to get their private is it, when really it is only the framework. Others that fall into this category are those that have poor attitudes in general or the type of person that you talk to but they always seem to be somewhere else. These are pilots that are often classified in this category. One of the more experienced CFIs here I am sure can expand upon this to give you more information. What you are doing thus far sounds good, your continuing your education through NTSB reports and forums like these which is always a great start.

If you don't understand an NTSB report then post them up here and lets talk about them, they will surely provide information for all of us. Us CFIs love to overanalyze everything so bring it on!

Good luck getting your PPL and welcome to the world of aviation.
 
I am but a lowly 35 hour student, but what would you seasoned instructors consider to be "a walking NTSB report"?

Even the best pilots can find themselves in an NTSB report.

There is no objective measure. I may be walking around with a future number.

Keep reading and learning from others mistakes.
The best you can do is always strive for sound decisions.

These days I've started think that, "Fate is the hunter", is more than just a book title.

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Sorry folks for the thread jack, but my student has been on my mind and this fit in to well not to talk about it.
 
I made "gotcha" tag for my students.

I took a "remove before flight" ribbon key chain, and welded a alligator clip to the ring. When we've reached the point where I just hang back and watch, I'll clip the tag to a part of the airplane where it should catch their attention if they are being observant. The tip of the bottom prop blade is a good spot, so is the elevator trim tab pushrod.

Thanks for this idea! Awesome.
 
Even the best pilots can find themselves in an NTSB report.

There is no objective measure. I may be walking around with a future number.

Keep reading and learning from others mistakes.
The best you can do is always strive for sound decisions.

These days I've started think that, "Fate is the hunter", is more than just a book title.
:yeahthat:
A lot of the time when you hear about a pilot who dies in an accident, his friends and co-workers will say "he was such a cautious pilot...never took chances..." etc. Be that as it may, all it takes is one little bit of carelessness with some chance thrown in, and BAM, you're in over your head.

Most of us on here have probably gotten away with things that could have killed us, and a lot of people have lost friends doing things that should have been perfectly safe.

Decision making is where it's at.
 
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