Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
There was also some great journalism that brought things alive.
Unlimited class pulling out of Reno/Roswell Air Races
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
There was also some great journalism that brought things alive.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
The Cleveland Air Races were the biggest national sporting event back in the '30s and '40s. 100,000 spectators per day was normal and expected. It was on par with the World Series or a heavyweight boxing match when the only media was radio and print. A modified P-51 crashed into a house killing a housewife, her son and the pilot in '49 and the National Championship Air Races ended until '64 when the circus started up again. It lasted for 50 years and eventually it also ended for many reasons including airplanes crashing into crowds and developers encroaching onto land underneath the course (at one point RARA owned all of that land and slowly started selling it off). Now they're trying to simulate Reno in Roswell and it just doesn't fit. I have nothing against Roswell, I'm sure it's a fine place to live. I don't have any good answers regarding any of this but I am happy that I was an integral member on one of the fastest air racers that ever tore up the Valley Of Speed at Stead. I'm still sad that we weren't the first to get an official 500mph lap on the course but I applaud the folks that did. Life goes on.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
some 7-11 beers then kabob palace chapli at gravelly>>>>
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I should have limited my comments to Reno’s modern era.
At the end of the day it’s pretty simple, there’s not enough money and interest in the event to make all the problems go away, regardless of venue.
Reno could have grown to be viable over the years with better marketing and a compelling broadcast. Where was the marketing? Where were the cross promotions with NASCAR, Indycar, and F1. Where was a marketing presence at major air shows? Where was a TV deal? Where was a signature sponsor?
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I've been lucky enough to rub shoulders with some of most prominent modern era unlimited pilots, owners and crew members that took that particular class of air racing from the low to mid 400s to breaking the 500 mph barrier, I'm not talking about 3K record attempts I'm talking about an average speed of 500mph on the course at Reno. We almost did it with the Bearcat, I think the fastest we ever went on the course when I worked on it was 491mph. There was a group of strong thinkers amongst these folks that elevated these airplanes to these seemingly insurmountable speeds and one was a guy named Dave Cornell. He helped the Rare Bear transform from a '60/'70s unlimited racer to what ended up being the second golden age of gold unlimited air racing in the late '80s and early '90s with the battles between Rare Bear, Strega, Dreadnought and to some extent Tsunami. It only lasted for a few years but it was awesome. So I knew Dave from not only the bearcat but also from the prop shop I used to work at (at one point in time if your OV-10 prop governor didn't come from Cherry Point I overhauled it and tested it on a bench engineered and built by Dave). Before the movie Crimson Tide came out I knew I wanted a Jack Russel as a dog and Dave overheard me saying it and mentioned his sister bred high end Jack Russels and that's how I ended up with the best dog ever. Dave and Lyle (the owner of the Rare Bear) had gotten their wires crossed before I ever met either of them and let's just say they weren't fond of each other but Dave and I got along so one day he invited me to his house in the SFV and after passing muster with two enormous Rhodesian Ridgebacks and his wife Bonnie (I'd actually had lunch with her and Dave so I wasn't a complete stranger), we walked into his backyard. Most folks think the valley is just apartment buildings stacked on warehouses and that may be where it's headed but to this day there are "large" lots (1-2 acres) all over the place. Dave had built a hangar/barn in his backyard and inside was his answer to the big numbers for unlimited air racers. It was a mix of a T-2 Buckeye fuselage, an F-86 tail and I can't recall what wing he had but it was a real (half finished) airplane right in front of me. I was flummoxed by the fact he wanted it to have a nose wheel holding up a 3350 (he helped the bearcat perfect that engine for air racing including the slow nose case) and then he showed me the coup de grace, an ejection seat. I said that's fine for the pilot but this isn't combat and where is that airplane going once left to it's own devices? A few years later Lyle died and Dave started working on Rare Bear for the new owner. Now Dave has passed, the three blade prop will never run again and the bearcat sits in some hangar somewhere in Texas and will likely never push the power up in honest competition ever again. Funny thing is although we had a bunch of nitrous on board we rarely used it, everyone got played by the theatrics of loading it, it would certainly work if needed but most of the time it wasn't needed.
some comments I’ve seen in various places on this.
“The Unlimited’s were already dying off when it was in Reno. They could barely field a class the last few years and it wasn’t much of a competition anymore. Seems like it really started coming apart once Rare Bear pulled out, and then the Galloping Ghost incident really put a major damper on the entire event as a whole. The fact is, it’s become too expensive to race them without major sponsorships to make the purses worth it, and it would’ve most likely dissolved if the event stayed in Reno anyways, which would’ve eventually killed off the entire event here, as well. You could see it with the ever dwindling attendance numbers. These teams were all losing a ton of money to even race anymore. Trophies and notoriety can only go so far. It’s hard to blame RARA for not finding sponsors too, because what companies would want to dump a ton of money into such a niche 4 day event that’s barely even recognized on a National stage with such a small audience? The only way to really save the entire event IMO, is to somehow turn it back into a real Nationwide series with multiple events (maybe like 5-6 rounds) around the U.S. like they used to do at one time and get Peacock or FOX to cover it to pull in a newer, much bigger fanbase. Then it would make sense for major sponsors to get involved with it, which would make racing the warbirds worth it again. We’re talking multi million dollar purses per event and something like a $5 million check for the overall series winner for the World’s fastest motorsport.“
“The dirt, if you're interested in gossip is; Once the Rare Bear team network ( 5 or 6 unlimited planes) went into probate on a divorce fiasco the field was cracked and several other teams reached maximum frustration limits with the fossil committee at RARA. The Galloping Ghost tragedy still haunted old folks and parents and the insurance for the event went thru the roof... at an event with no roof... Reno saw the crack and immediately jumped on the industrial air park plan and it's in full swing now. An air show is all that's going to happen after this year and with the remaining (unlimited) war birds pulling out the crowd will shrink a little but not much.. P.S. I've been informed that the Airport Authority that owns and runs both our airports also played a pivotal role as they are the ones that allowed the development which ultimately became the nail in the coffin. Burning Man has more than offset the revenue loss as it has grown and stabilized while the air races peaked and started sliding. All classes but unlimited and sport are racing at Roswell NM this year and forward. The previously mentioned air shows are not likely to happen due to aforementioned ground clutter and no permanent grand stands.”
Is RARA changing their name from Reno to Roswell now?
“The Unlimited’s were already dying off when it was in Reno. They could barely field a class the last few years and it wasn’t much of a competition anymore. Seems like it really started coming apart once Rare Bear pulled out, and then the Galloping Ghost incident really put a major damper on the entire event as a whole. The fact is, it’s become too expensive to race them without major sponsorships to make the purses worth it, and it would’ve most likely dissolved if the event stayed in Reno anyways, which would’ve eventually killed off the entire event here, as well. You could see it with the ever dwindling attendance numbers. These teams were all losing a ton of money to even race anymore. Trophies and notoriety can only go so far. It’s hard to blame RARA for not finding sponsors too, because what companies would want to dump a ton of money into such a niche 4 day event that’s barely even recognized on a National stage with such a small audience? The only way to really save the entire event IMO, is to somehow turn it back into a real Nationwide series with multiple events (maybe like 5-6 rounds) around the U.S. like they used to do at one time and get Peacock or FOX to cover it to pull in a newer, much bigger fanbase. Then it would make sense for major sponsors to get involved with it, which would make racing the warbirds worth it again. We’re talking multi million dollar purses per event and something like a $5 million check for the overall series winner for the World’s fastest motorsport.“
“The dirt, if you're interested in gossip is; Once the Rare Bear team network ( 5 or 6 unlimited planes) went into probate on a divorce fiasco the field was cracked and several other teams reached maximum frustration limits with the fossil committee at RARA. The Galloping Ghost tragedy still haunted old folks and parents and the insurance for the event went thru the roof... at an event with no roof... Reno saw the crack and immediately jumped on the industrial air park plan and it's in full swing now. An air show is all that's going to happen after this year and with the remaining (unlimited) war birds pulling out the crowd will shrink a little but not much.. P.S. I've been informed that the Airport Authority that owns and runs both our airports also played a pivotal role as they are the ones that allowed the development which ultimately became the nail in the coffin. Burning Man has more than offset the revenue loss as it has grown and stabilized while the air races peaked and started sliding. All classes but unlimited and sport are racing at Roswell NM this year and forward. The previously mentioned air shows are not likely to happen due to aforementioned ground clutter and no permanent grand stands.”
Is RARA changing their name from Reno to Roswell now?
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I think RARA is trying desperately to maintain control of the NCAR (National Championship Air Races). The races started long before they ended up in Reno. I'm not necessarily a fan of RARA because from my perspective it always seemed like they were more about maximizing their profits rather than actually giving a poop about the cost to the participants. I can recall one year the Unlimited Gold winner prize was $100,000, that sounds like a lot of money if you forget that it cost the winner $500,000 to get there. Maybe it's just sour grapes because the owner of our team was not a billionaire, he was a retired USN and TWA pilot and quite often we operated based on whatever credit he had available on his AMEX and we had sponsors (ever heard of Aeroshell aircraft engine oil?). In a previous post I mentioned Jerry Duty, he used to run RARA, and at one point the Unlimited pilots gathered together and demanded more prize money. Jerry told them they were a bunch of egotistical maniacs and they'd race if the prize was a 10 gallon bucket of manure, and he was probably correct. That did not sit well with the parcipants and instead of working together it morphed into a more adversarial situation that never recovered as long as I was around the races. Like I said we operated on a shoestring budget but we were one of the main attractions and to supplement our budget we'd sell merch (T-shirts, hats, stickers and other tchochkies) just to try and shore up the losses incurred to get there, RARA wanted 10% of the profits right at the point of sale. I should also mention my time with the Bearcat was entirely before Lyle sold the airplane to Rod Lewis. I gave a portion of my life trying to do something very difficult and we set some records that would be broken eventually but in hindsight it was worth it. It was a fine looking airplane once we finally repainted it in the white, gold and purple and started racing it again.
my friend owns this airplane now
WacoFan
Bigly
Obviously the 30's and Cleveland were a different time. But one thing that still might be a driver is relevance/attainability, particularly regarding non-unlimited class racers. It seems any motor sport, no matter how tenuously, seems rooted a little bit in "race on Sunday, buy on Monday". Particularly going back to Cleveland era - Laird, Howard, Waco, Travel Air, Gee Bee and all others (except Weddle-Williams) were mostly trying to win money and fame to help sell their commercials machines. They were highly relevant. I think people obviously enjoy motorsports but what relevance does the unlimited class have today? They aren't being produced. They have limited/no applicability to anyone's life. Not that sportsman or other classes are more relevant, but if a new sportsman design could somehow debut, kick everyone's ass, and then be sold as a 2/3/4 place kit or developed into a commercial line (Howard biz model) you would have relevance. And maybe next year Cirrus or Lancair creates a racer. Or Vans. Or the SX-300 or Questair Venture are further developed. And Thunder Mustang developed/perfected. That would all be way more relevant than 80 year old war surplus/tech that literally benefits and is attainable to nobody.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
What's their plan? I have a lot of questions. In that picture you can see what look like some Aeroproducts Skyraider prop blades sitting on the stand holding up the fuselage. I should say that I didn't take that picture and that isn't Daves backyard, the last time I saw it it had wings on it. Dave was actively working on a modified C-130A prop to power this thing, that was one of things we talked about, the prop part was fairly straightforward, the regulator was a different problem. I do recall one sticky point was going to be the NLG and I'm not sure he ever solved it, I heard rumors that he wanted to use a F-100 NLG assembly but I'm uncertain if he ever finalized the design. One main thing about trying to use a 3350 to go fast is it's going to require a slow nose case and I think only about 6 still exist, there's a lot more to it but that would be the first issue. I really enjoyed the time I spent with Dave and I suspect he wouldn't have invited me to his home if that feeling wasn't mutual. Then he went off and started working on steam cars for Jay Leno, got to pay the bills somehow.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
A good friend of mine lost his life in a Thunder Mustang so I'm not sure I'd say it's been perfected. I also don't think anyone other than the participants actually give a crap about any of this, if people want to show up and watch that's fine but it's not done for an audience. Bonneville has an annual event and I suspect despite the same crazed mentalities driving it it'll continue until the government decides that it's environmentally harmful (that's doublespeak, they lease the flats out to a few big companies that produce salt, for a piece of their profits). I don't have a good answer for any of this other than maybe in a few years the Sport class (they'd made some rule changes, did you know turbines are legal now?) will get up to the speeds of the big dogs at Reno but we're not there yet. Maybe it's like front engine dragsters, folks will run some nostalgia races occasionally but you know damn well the folks in the seat aren't pushing with the same unabashed abandon that the original builder intended. In other words the Unlimiteds will probably end up as a parade rather than a race. There's a man who has the heritage, knowledge and flying skill to bring this all back to life...
my mistake, kind of sped read your post and pic on the phone and thought you were talking about shockwave but this appears to be a different project, disregard. thought Cornell was the owner between darryl and the current
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I don't know if Dave was ever involved in Greenemayers project, I doubt it but I can't confirm it. Darrels Shockwave seemed to be more based on setting speed records rather than racing, those are two different pursuits. Shockwave if memory serves was going to use a 4360 for power, it'll reliably put out 4000hp but hot-rodding it is ill advised and trying to get it produce that power for any amount of time requires mods that the progenitors did not share before they passed away. I have a suspicion where Shockwave ended up but no confirmation, I believe the Cornell/Jackson racer known as American Spirit ended up somehow with Rod Lewis, the current owner of the Rare Bear during Daves time as crew chief before he passed away. Darrel might've been a lot of things but he was also a heck of an engineer and a great test pilot. I often used to wonder what would happen if either of those projects had come to fruition. The Pond Racer was the first attempt at a clean sheet build in the modern era and it was not successful, Tsunami was a clean sheet build (meaning it wasn't a modified existing airplane) and it was pushing the big dogs before it also crashed killing the owner on the way home from its fastest laps ever at Reno (that's a story for another day). Setting world speed records on land, water or in the air is purely vanity and maybe narcissism. Maybe someday those half finished airplanes will be completed and whoever spent the enormous amount of money will find out if they're fastest, only time will tell.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I've ruminated about this post for a while, I've read through it several times trying to understand what you meant to convey about the races and I finally realized what bothered me about it. You're not a racer, you're a casual fan/volunteer and there's nothing wrong with that. When I stumbled upon the Bearcat I'd heard of the races but knew almost nothing about them other than they happened in Reno every September. The airplane was sitting outside in a bad state of disrepair, the wingtips (it still has folding wings) and all of the other control surfaces had been removed, there was nothing from the firewall forward and it was still leaking oil. But the canopy was still on it and it somehow struck me, I didn't know it was the fastest piston powered anything, I didn't know its legacy at Reno, I just liked the way it looked and decided if I couldn't afford to build my own race contraption (car/boat/motorcycle/airplane) this mess of an airplane had some cool lines and I jumped in to get it flying again. The point is our crew was 100% volunteers, probably 5% actually spent the countless hours in the hangar to get it flying again but 100% wanted a hotel room and a free pit pass at the races. Some folks thought setting a lawn chair and a cooler up to watch us from just outside of the hangar made them crew members. Many would show up at the races and pay their own way and help selling T-shirts or running for food or other stuff we needed. The core of the team appreciated the support but if it didn't help the airplane race well it wasn't that important. We weren't there to participate in a parade. The most embarrassing thing I ever watched was the "Super Gold"at Reno, it was scripted and I hated every second of it, unbeknownst to most folks Dreadnought could've easily won that race.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I’ve been to Reno twice, I loved it. I liked it for the same reasons I liked Speed Week.
For decades, it survived without spectator and major sponsor support and now it can’t. Nobody cares enough to write big checks and apply political pressure on all the jurisdictions and agencies involved.
I’m sad to see it fall apart. I liked the same things you like, the engineering, the pits, and the personalities.
My point is that it’s always been a mediocre spectator event and the teams didn’t have the foresight to understand that this would eventually be an issue.
Before Red Bull launched their own racing series they showed an interest in Reno and Reno thought they were doing just fine … they weren’t.
A couple of weeks ago I attended a private airshow with a dozen T-34’s (one owner). It was a better spectator event than Reno. Likewise, watching DCA traffic from Gravelly Point is a better spectator event than Reno … after a few beers.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I don't know if you saw what Red Bull was proposing when they wanted to try and join forces with RARA, but it was nothing like what the RBAR ended up being.
Their "demo race" in 2003 was pretty much an aerobatic routine time trial that ran through two inflatable gates. It had none of the elements that took years afterward to get fleshed out to make it into what people now think of when they think "Red Bull Air Races."
After their demo at Reno, it was a combination of spectators looking at each other asking "WTF did we just see?" and air race crews laughing at it.
It is no surprise RARA wasn't interested in it.