Unknown Florida Airspace Question
- Thread starter Douglas
- Start date
Douglas
Old School KSUX
C'moooooon.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
The specific one through central Florida is for Tomahawk cruise missle testing. The Navy launches either from a sub or a a ship in the Atlantic, and the missle travels accross central FL, through the warning airspace, and onto the Eglin range. These tests happen about twice per year max and I'd like to think we do a good job of getting the word out via NOTAM. Also, the missle gets chased by a fighter (F/A-18, F-16 or F-15...it all depends on which flight test unit is free) and the chase has a "terminate" switch for the weapon. These corridors are unique in that they allow uncommanded weapons to fly in the airspace. The Tomahawk is going to do its best to get to its target regardless of what Miami or Jax Center wants it to do. The missile may be doing this with untested guidance or navigation laws. Bottom line for aviators: 1) The only control the Navy has over Tomahawks post launch is a kill switch 2) Tomahawks are escorted by a fighter with the ability to clear the flight path 3) These tests are well NOTAMed and happen very infrequently.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
I want substantiating proof of this in writing from an official source before I believe it. Until then you're just spreading the rumor.
Gajre gave supporting info, please give us yours.
This is indeed true. Seen it firsthand, see below. And why would you hear about it from ATC? The test firings, while not classified, aren't really advertised in mission detail either. You contact the ATC agency noted, and you'll be told that the route will be active or not, the altitude (generally near the bottom of the structure), and the time its planned to be active; and again all this is well covered by NOTAM. That's all GA really needs to know on a general basis. And they're not a daily occurance, they're on an as-needed basis, meaning they're not too common.
Considering Hook works AF flight test out of VPS, I don't think he's spreading anything. They're called Cruise Missile Routes, again as I previously explained.
The route out of the McGregor/WSMR Range in NM that I commented on earlier and am personally familiar with is exactly as described except its for the CALCM or ALCM cruise missiles testing, with the chase aircraft out of the KVPS Test Wing or KHMN det, generally an F-15 or F-16 and there's usually 2-4 of them. ALCM route time can be anywhere from 3-4 hours or more, and the fighters are tanker supported. Visual chase is only required on these MTR routes that are outside Restricted airspace and depicted as I previously described; flight profiles remaining inside Restricted areas don't need chase aircraft. The reason for the routes that are outside Restricted airspace is to give a more real flight profile for the missile to fly, without the constraints of being on the UTTR or TTR ranges in Utah and Nevada or WSMR in NM, respectively.
In addition to this one, there's one that runs east/west north of Santa Barbara, CA along IR-200/425 going from the Pacific Ocean to the Edwards/Mojave area. As well as one that runs from Desert MOA to Sevier MOA in Utah also along the same two IR MTRs
Av8trix
Well-Known Member
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...YEfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WKUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6788,2712727 Dated 1992
"That crash prompted Florida Gov. Lawton Chiles to demand some answers before he would permit the Navy to begin using a new test route from the Atlantic Ocean over 21 North Florida counties to the target area at Eglin."
Doesn't come right out and say it, but sounds like our "mystery" airspace to me. <shrug>
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http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_eglin-tomahawk-cruise-missile-navy-tomahawk successful tests
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http://webgis.co.okaloosa.fl.us/jlus/docs/final/INDIVIDUAL SECTIONS/Section 16 - Eglin.pdf figure 16-10 shows the path into Eglin
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www.nifc.gov/nicc/logistics/references/Airspace_Guide/Chapter03.docx
F. Cruise Missile Routes
Cruise missile operations are conducted on selected IR Military Training Routes. They may be flown in excess of 250 knots and below 10,000 MSL. Cruise missiles may be accompanied by two chase aircraft escort. The chase aircraft must always maintain the ability to maneuver the missile out of the flight path of conflicting traffic. A high altitude communications
aircraft may be used in conjunction with the cruise missile and maintains communication and radar contact with the appropriate ATC facility.
Cruise missile operations are conducted in daylight hours under VFR conditions, with flight visibility of at least five miles, 2,000 feet horizontal and 1,000 feet vertical separation from clouds. Special charting on a sectional designates unmanned aerospace vehicle routes (UAVRS). Two well-known routes are in southern California and Florida. Figure 3-53 depicts a cruise missile corridor.
"That crash prompted Florida Gov. Lawton Chiles to demand some answers before he would permit the Navy to begin using a new test route from the Atlantic Ocean over 21 North Florida counties to the target area at Eglin."
Doesn't come right out and say it, but sounds like our "mystery" airspace to me. <shrug>
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http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_eglin-tomahawk-cruise-missile-navy-tomahawk successful tests
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http://webgis.co.okaloosa.fl.us/jlus/docs/final/INDIVIDUAL SECTIONS/Section 16 - Eglin.pdf figure 16-10 shows the path into Eglin
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www.nifc.gov/nicc/logistics/references/Airspace_Guide/Chapter03.docx
F. Cruise Missile Routes
Cruise missile operations are conducted on selected IR Military Training Routes. They may be flown in excess of 250 knots and below 10,000 MSL. Cruise missiles may be accompanied by two chase aircraft escort. The chase aircraft must always maintain the ability to maneuver the missile out of the flight path of conflicting traffic. A high altitude communications
aircraft may be used in conjunction with the cruise missile and maintains communication and radar contact with the appropriate ATC facility.
Cruise missile operations are conducted in daylight hours under VFR conditions, with flight visibility of at least five miles, 2,000 feet horizontal and 1,000 feet vertical separation from clouds. Special charting on a sectional designates unmanned aerospace vehicle routes (UAVRS). Two well-known routes are in southern California and Florida. Figure 3-53 depicts a cruise missile corridor.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
just to clarify, I never said either of you were wrong; I heard the same thing when I flew in Fla. What I said was I wanted documentation supporting the claim - which we now have.
I figured between you guys, jrh and mark someone would have the link.
I figured between you guys, jrh and mark someone would have the link.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Thankfully, not *everything* is on Google. The flip side is that the aviation public is unaware of military flight ops in general and absolutely clueless about some of the unique things we do in flight test.
As it should be. Need to know and all.
Thats why I said that all I expect of civilian pilots regarding these airspace types is generally what it is and more importantly, where info can be found for active times/altitudes, etc. I have seen a couple of the CFIs that like to play "I know more than you" or "Let me show you how smart I am" to students and expect the stud to know specific details, chiming in (usually with the wrong answer) when the stud doesn't know.