United

MountainsOrBeach said:
Not if you’re able to do it within the first year or two. DL and UA now will be around $94k first year before any OT. That won’t happen for AA for a few years, unless it’s renegotiated. You get $85k with AA, and only $64k during their incredibly long training. Most people struggle and spend on average 2-3 years give or take, at low paying regionals before coming to the legacies. Why wait another 2-3 years if you can obtain the best and most competitive pay now? Especially after inflation and mega rising rents, rates and mortgages. And especially if one of the best reasons someone came to AA to start with was the awesome 4/3, 4/4 schedule but now that changes? If you’ve already been there a few years, yes that could be kinda silly since you’d lose seniority… unless the culture is bad as well. Either way it will deter people from applying to AA to start with if there’s more competitive pay and benefits out there with companies who have just as many perks.
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Even when we were under a bankruptcy concessionary contract and a 29K a year starting salary, there were plenty of applications each time there was a dispatch new hire class. Very few people jumped ship to other majors. Turnover in AA dispatch over the past decade consists mostly of retirements and deaths. I highly doubt a change in relief work schedule is going to stop the applications from coming in.

That being said, I do hope these changes dont happen and theres not much chance that a new contract filled with concessions will pass a membership vote.
 
MountainsOrBeach said:
Not if you’re able to do it within the first year or two. DL and UA now will be around $94k first year before any OT. That won’t happen for AA for a few years, unless it’s renegotiated. You get $85k with AA, and only $64k during their incredibly long training. Most people struggle and spend on average 2-3 years give or take, at low paying regionals before coming to the legacies. Why wait another 2-3 years if you can obtain the best and most competitive pay now? Especially after inflation and mega rising rents, rates and mortgages. And especially if one of the best reasons someone came to AA to start with was the awesome 4/3, 4/4 schedule but now that changes? If you’ve already been there a few years, yes that could be kinda silly since you’d lose seniority… unless the culture is bad as well. Either way it will deter people from applying to AA to start with if there’s more competitive pay and benefits out there with companies who have just as many perks.
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You might be on that 6/2 schedule for years. It makes sense to jump ship if you are still on that schedule. American used to be the most attractive to me because of their 4/3 4/4. I think the other legacies should switch to 4/3 4/4 also.
 
MountainsOrBeach said:
Which relief would potentially be the bottom 150 dxers or the bottom 30%, which could be for a very long time. They’ve already hired so many, 5 classes of 30 in the last year. I presume those folks will be at the bottom for a long time to come now. It’s not enticing for them to stay, or for new folks to come if they change it to 6/2 and get paid $10-$20k less than the other two. I hope they will keep it the way it is now 4/3, 4/4. I know you didn’t say this next part, but AA isn’t technically 8 hours, it’s 9. It’s just how the schedule falls at the moment to make it 8. This could always change back to full 9 as well.
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30% isn’t going to be the end number.. so let’s just remove that. The union said the airline has never needed more than less than 20%, so figure around 100 is more than likely and they already have a large # of that 100 on relief now…AA and I would assume other majors have seen a trickle of experienced DX leave, and it’s not going to slow down with FlightKeys, etc coming as well. There will be movement upward as well and the people hired now are in a great position. The airline as well said they like8 hours with flat shift change times, yes they keep the 9 hours on the clock but you’re 99.9% the time out the door at 8, and only time you aren’t is when your relief is late but I have those people relieved before it hits the full hour.

MountainsOrBeach said:
Not if you’re able to do it within the first year or two. DL and UA now will be around $94k first year before any OT. That won’t happen for AA for a few years, unless it’s renegotiated. You get $85k with AA, and only $64k during their incredibly long training. Most people struggle and spend on average 2-3 years give or take, at low paying regionals before coming to the legacies. Why wait another 2-3 years if you can obtain the best and most competitive pay now? Especially after inflation and mega rising rents, rates and mortgages. And especially if one of the best reasons someone came to AA to start with was the awesome 4/3, 4/4 schedule but now that changes? If you’ve already been there a few years, yes that could be kinda silly since you’d lose seniority… unless the culture is bad as well. Either way it will deter people from applying to AA to start with if there’s more competitive pay and benefits out there with companies who have just as many perks.
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yes the training is long at AA, but not everyone takes 4-5months of OJT, and they have had people with 0 DECS experience checking out with the Envoy folk as well. There is plenty of OT spare time off, ECB etc as well… plenty of affordable housing near IOC along with no income tax that makes the dollar go vastly farther than other places. Each major has ur own perks positive/negative. It could be much worse, SW DX that make less and have longer wait times to fully upgrade. (Had 2 buddies go to AA/SW, the AA guy comped out 3 months ahead of SW because SW didn’t have an upgrade spot). also with that being said, I have buddies who were in these new classes that will break 85k and didn’t get signed off till 2nd Qtr of the year, if you wanna work and hit 6 figures it’s extremely doable

Unsmy127 said:
You might be on that 6/2 schedule for years. It makes sense to jump ship if you are still on that schedule. American used to be the most attractive to me because of their 4/3 4/4. I think the other legacies should switch to 4/3 4/4 also.
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The 6-1 was proposed by the airline and instantly shot down by the union, the union laid out multiple different ways to conduct relief lines with the 16/17 work days per month. Also, multiple old timers (and commuters) at the meetings had interest in the schedule as well. The lines would be pre built a month in advance and allow everyone to bid so you would not be stuck entirely with crap and you have some knowledge of your sch.
 
RegionalDXer said:
The 6-1 was proposed by the airline and instantly shot down by the union, the union laid out multiple different ways to conduct relief lines with the 16/17 work days per month. Also, multiple old timers (and commuters) at the meetings had interest in the schedule as well. The lines would be pre built a month in advance and allow everyone to bid so you would not be stuck entirely with crap and you have some knowledge of your sch.
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Do you mean the union shot down both the 6-1 and 6-2 proposals? Are they standing firm on keeping everyone on the 4/3 4/4? Give a concession to management and they will want more and more. Employees should resoundly reject the schedule change. I think the other legacies should switch to 4/3 4/4 as well.
 
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With the ongoing hiring spree at UA, how much seniority does the juniormost lineholder (i.e. non-bid relief) have now? How about the juniormost non-midnight lineholder?
 
mrezee said:
With the ongoing hiring spree at UA, how much seniority does the juniormost lineholder (i.e. non-bid relief) have now? How about the juniormost non-midnight lineholder?
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Most Junior Lineholder is an Ops Manager hired in 2020. Most junior dispatch lineholder is a 2018 hire. This person is not on midnights. Midnight lines are actually slightly more preferred than afternoons as you end up with extra days off.
 
MT said:
Most Junior Lineholder is an Ops Manager hired in 2020. Most junior dispatch lineholder is a 2018 hire. This person is not on midnights. Midnight lines are actually slightly more preferred than afternoons as you end up with extra days off.
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There are also some new vacation relief lines being built, so I would expect this number to move very soon.
 
Unsmy127 said:
Do you mean the union shot down both the 6-1 and 6-2 proposals? Are they standing firm on keeping everyone on the 4/3 4/4? Give a concession to management and they will want more and more. Employees should resoundly reject the schedule change. I think the other legacies should switch to 4/3 4/4 as well.
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2 members of board said it was a no go the 6-1 and they laid out multiple different options the board thought would be presentable to the union… the union also has said they will seek input from members as well. The relief line issue wouldn’t take affect till 2024 either way if it was agreed upon even today.
 
manniax said:
Just a suggestion, but if people want to discuss AA scheduling issues here...certainly a worthy topic for discussion...perhaps someone should start a new topic rather than posting about them in one titled "United."
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Apologies… I was thinking this as well, hence not replying much now. I could def argue more about the cost of living being vastly different and higher now than it was 10+ years ago, and the costs of homes / apartments not being so affordable even in DFW these days. As of this summer, gone are the days of safe, clean 1 bedrooms with somewhat modern amenities being $1000… More like $1400+ even for places built in the 80s. Or how much less of a chance people had of getting into a legacy 10+ years ago so they had less options, arguing / bargaining power so of course would apply when there’s an opening… but I feel we will just continue disagreeing. I know there will always be applicants, but there’s better competition between the hiring companies and more incentives than there used to be. Good news for the applicants! I will continue to hope for more positive changes for all.

Sorry! Carry on United, and congrats again! :)
 
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It’s only a pay bump and a bonus. Bonus has been paid. Pay bump should be reflected in the spreadsheet.

there is no change to the 401k match
 
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