United reaching out to ALPA FFD Carriers

ATN_Pilot said:
Your MEC or NC should put out that information during negotiations. Your guys seem to be top notch, and since they're new they'll probably be getting the help of the best people at national, so I'm sure you'll be inundated with information to do the comparisons as negotiations progress.
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Well I meant more in terms of making an educated decision on which carrier to choose for employment. I'm sure some ALPA contracts are worse than others. So, hypothetically, if I was sitting with offers from the 3 legacies, where are these contracts found online so I can look at the entire package, not just pay rates.

For the record, even with our work rules at Endeavor, one of the main selling points of moving on was dollars per hour. I didn't consider any work rules or retirement, because you can't actually find them for any carriers.
 
cencal83406 said:
Well I meant more in terms of making an educated decision on which carrier to choose for employment. I'm sure some ALPA contracts are worse than others. So, hypothetically, if I was sitting with offers from the 3 legacies, where are these contracts found online so I can look at the entire package, not just pay rates.

For the record, even with our work rules at Endeavor, one of the main selling points of moving on was dollars per hour. I didn't consider any work rules or retirement, because you can't actually find them for any carriers.
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I smelled dumpster fire everytime I went to work, that's what got me out the door.

"It's the smell, if there is such a thing."
 
cencal83406 said:
Well I meant more in terms of making an educated decision on which carrier to choose for employment. I'm sure some ALPA contracts are worse than others. So, hypothetically, if I was sitting with offers from the 3 legacies, where are these contracts found online so I can look at the entire package, not just pay rates.

For the record, even with our work rules at Endeavor, one of the main selling points of moving on was dollars per hour. I didn't consider any work rules or retirement, because you can't actually find them for any carriers.
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It's not really publicly available anywhere that I'm aware of. However, I think it would be a mistake to pick a carrier on that basis, anyway. In 1998, USAirways had the industry leading contract. In 2000, United did. In 2001, Delta did. By 2005, Southwest did. Now Delta does again. It moves constantly. And that includes both work rule and pay rates. The way to pick a carrier is to decide which one has a domicile where you want to live that is unlikely to close down, and which carrier has the kind of flying that you want to do. Trying to pick based upon contracts is meaningless with a time horizon beyond a few years.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's not really publicly available anywhere that I'm aware of. However, I think it would be a mistake to pick a carrier on that basis, anyway. In 1998, USAirways had the industry leading contract. In 2000, United did. In 2001, Delta did. By 2005, Southwest did. Now Delta does again. It moves constantly. And that includes both work rule and pay rates. The way to pick a carrier is to decide which one has a domicile where you want to live that is unlikely to close down, and which carrier has the kind of flying that you want to do. Trying to pick based upon contracts is meaningless with a time horizon beyond a few years.
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Fair enough. Just seems like that is a huge focus of union vs non-union as well as "pay rates aren't everything". So it's not easy to decipher why one is better than another.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Notice that no non-union airline appeared in my brief history of airline industry leading contracts? There's a reason for that.
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Understood. I was just trying to get a clearer picture on criteria for choosing a job besides "they hired me" since @BobDDuck intimated that work rules trump pay rates. If you can only go off pay rates, the discussion is moot. Further, if today's go-to is tomorrow's avoid... Well you get the idea and I do as well.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You ALPA number never changes.
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Yea, but when I log in it says that I am not associated with any airline.

Apparently the form never made its way from ground school to Herndon. Membership services just emailed me the forms to fill out again, but who has a printer these days?

My fault really for not checking earlier.
 
BobDDuck said:
I was implying that your comment about JetBlue having the highest 32X payrates behind the legacies, despite not having a union at the time doesn't really say much. I really don't care what a pay rate is. I care about what my W2 says at the end of the year and how hard I have to work to get it to say that. As a bunch of people eluded to, soft time is king, and JetBlue doesn't have much in the way of that. A guy (at say Spirit) could work far fewer hours and be on the road way less and still bring home the same amount that somebody at JetBlue would be, except they wouldn't have to work nearly as hard to do it.

Again, nobody really should care about what a pay rate is. They should care about what their paycheck says.
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Soft time is great, and I agree that soft time is a great way to make money.

But companies can ignore soft time provisions and simply say, "grieve it." I've seen this now, and it makes me wonder if soft time provisions are worth anything at companies without much in the way of integrity. At this companies, a higher pay rate would seem to be preferable.
 
cencal83406 said:
As an old MEC chair once told me, "juniority is a %%^^".

I didn't commute for 6+ years... Now I will. For a minute.
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There are jobs worth commuting to.

EMB-120 FO is not, in my opinion, worthy of commuting, unless the only part you do is the drive. (The Company goes back and forth in how it determines who is and is not a commuter; sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not.)
 
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