United/JetBlue Rumor Mill

ClearedForOption said:
What really makes me proud of my industry and all the volunteer work I've done to help individuals is that how quickly that sense of pilot cohesion falls apart when it’s actually tested. Pilots talk about being brothers, sisters, siblings—like we’re all in this together. Fighting for the profession as a whole. Although, the moment someone feels like they might lose even the smallest bit of privilege or status, it evaporates. Suddenly it’s staplers, preferential interviews, fences, cherry picking metrics, decertification, and etc. The knives come out, and it becomes a "my regional is sooooo much better than your regional"- type argument for those petty privileges that, and let's be perfectly honest here, that luck and good timing played a huge part in - those of us in the trenches are yoked up and basically along for the ride. People are ready to throw each other under the bus just to keep what little bit of provledge they have. It’s disheartening.

One of my favorite phrases that I'm pretty sure came from reading copious amounts of Heinlein is "kidding on the square." I've seen a lot of that on the innertubes lately anytime the topic of impending or rumored merging of pilot groups come up.
Click to expand...


I know what you mean. The worst of it is during SLI negotiations and then arbitration.



Just a small story. Flying a day trip with a senior FO. On the way back PDX-LAX we had a B6 guy going to work. Don’t recall his name but looked senior. I asked him if he’s still gonna be okay in LAX, he said yeah he hung on. And the FO goes, “we’re hiring.”


The gall! First, no we are not hiring. Second, talk about being out of touch with reality and what an insult to suggest something like that.
 
jtrain609 said:
Ain't too much guesswork involved here, this is how it's done. Go back and read previous arbitration awards and it's fairly cut and dried.

You get outlier every once in a while, like United pilots being given credit for time on furlough with the Continental merger, but this stuff is all fairly predictable these days.
Click to expand...


For how intelligent you are, I’m kinda surprised at this post. You can read past precedent, reality is no one knows. I still remember Todd / ATNpilot saying VX and AS would be fairly easy, following past precedent, and being mostly status category (and not longevity). In the end, it was 60% longevity, and that shocked even him. And that was a historical first.



Bottom line, no one knows.
 
Skåning said:
What would you crystal ball say as far as our (HA/AS) SLI going? Something similar?
Click to expand...


I don’t agree with him that widebody FO (a position a newhire can hold) should be a stovepipe position above narrowbody CA.


No one knows.

My guess if you are asking (you didn’t :))…

Stovepipe method (physical seats, not actual position pilot holds):

WB CA
NB CA
WB FO
NB FO

Some rationing to account for IROs.

With a 5-7 yr fence for WB CA. Or until the most junior HAL WB FO at the time of MAD can hold (or bypasses) a WB CA slot.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I know what you mean. The worst of it is during SLI negotiations and then arbitration.



Just a small story. Flying a day trip with a senior FO. On the way back PDX-LAX we had a B6 guy going to work. Don’t recall his name but looked senior. I asked him if he’s still gonna be okay in LAX, he said yeah he hung on. And the FO goes, “we’re hiring.”


The gall! First, no we are not hiring. Second, talk about being out of touch with reality and what an insult to suggest something like that.
Click to expand...

I agree, super douchey comment, even if just joking (wrong audience).

Reminds me of a time we took a jumpseater on a transcon to connect with his NY base (and his EU redeye later that evening). Little way into the flight, we are chatting, and the guy says he's year one at widget and on the 330. CA, my CA, visibly takes great offense to this, and begins his excuse matrix of how he tried to get hired there for years but they weren't hiring. JS guy (and me) were confused when he mentioned he had been trying since 2017/2018. Some of the greatest years of hiring over there. Huh? Guy I was flying with was a nice enough dude, but he couldn't help himself from busting this JS'ers balls all the way to NY. It was awkward, and not exactly the impression I felt like we should be giving.
 
///AMG said:
I agree, super douchey comment, even if just joking (wrong audience).

Reminds me of a time we took a jumpseater on a transcon to connect with his NY base (and his EU redeye later that evening). Little way into the flight, we are chatting, and the guy says he's year one at widget and on the 330. CA, my CA, visibly takes great offense to this, and begins his excuse matrix of how he tried to get hired there for years but they weren't hiring. JS guy (and me) were confused when he mentioned he had been trying since 2017/2018. Some of the greatest years of hiring over there. Huh? Guy I was flying with was a nice enough dude, but he couldn't help himself from busting this JS'ers balls all the way to NY. It was awkward, and not exactly the impression I felt like we should be giving.
Click to expand...

I think that sometimes you can just be grumpy (or douchy) because you are grumpy.

Or... because you can't even imagine how you somehow got into a situation where you couldn't be more disappointed with how your career is going.

FOMO, or what ever comes after FOMO when you are yoked to an airline and can't really leave because of finances/seniority/whatever is a powerful something.

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I know what you mean. The worst of it is during SLI negotiations and then arbitration.



Just a small story. Flying a day trip with a senior FO. On the way back PDX-LAX we had a B6 guy going to work. Don’t recall his name but looked senior. I asked him if he’s still gonna be okay in LAX, he said yeah he hung on. And the FO goes, “we’re hiring.”


The gall! First, no we are not hiring. Second, talk about being out of touch with reality and what an insult to suggest something like that.
Click to expand...

Anyone who hung on to the left seat out west at my shop has 20+ years under their belt on property. Up to and including the plug on junior reserve. To compare... that's weekends off, holidays off, and a choice of lots of all inclusive island layovers in the most Jr. base.

I know many 10+ year CAs that took the downgrade for QOL.

I am going to NYC and I couldn't be more disappointed with how this is turning out. Think I might bid Europe in the fall - didn't do it in the MOADB because of the guaranteed red eye component on every single trip, I'm reevaluating my choice because it's actually the kind of flying that I like to do. One and done.

I've got no notes for the senior FO @ your shop. Maybe don't kick a dude while they are down.

I probably know the Azul dude - I know most of the old guard out here.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I don’t agree with him that widebody FO (a position a newhire can hold) should be a stovepipe position above narrowbody CA.


No one knows.

My guess if you are asking (you didn’t :))…

Stovepipe method (physical seats, not actual position pilot holds):

WB CA
NB CA
WB FO
NB FO

Some rationing to account for IROs.

With a 5-7 yr fence for WB CA. Or until the most junior HAL WB FO at the time of MAD can hold (or bypasses) a WB CA slot.
Click to expand...

LOL.

Most of my first officers on the 350 are well north of mid-seniority NB captains. NB captain slots, this iteration of "The Matrix" just means you ended probation early or you don't mind perma-reserve.
 
derg said:
LOL.

Most of my first officers on the 350 are well north of mid-seniority NB captains. NB captain slots, this iteration of "The Matrix" just means you ended probation early or you don't mind perma-reserve.
Click to expand...

Yes, by choice. So there’s nothing special there. Seems for about the last 10 yrs of hiring (which represents more than half of all legacy pilots today), any airline here with widebodies, FOs could get a widebody FO position either right off the bat as a newhire, or very quickly shortly thereafter any seat lock.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, by choice. So there’s nothing special there. Seems for about the last 10 yrs of hiring (which represents more than half of all legacy pilots today), any airline here with widebodies, FOs could get a widebody FO position either right off the bat as a newhire, or very quickly shortly thereafter any seat lock.
Click to expand...
AA shedded a lot of its widebody fleet, 767 A330, during Covid so I believe it takes awhile to get WB Fo at AA. No new hires have gotten WB FO.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, by choice. So there’s nothing special there. Seems for about the last 10 yrs of hiring (which represents more than half of all legacy pilots today), any airline here with widebodies, FOs could get a widebody FO position either right off the bat as a newhire, or very quickly shortly thereafter any seat lock.
Click to expand...

This isn’t germane to my correction about the progression of a pilot’s career.
 
ERfly said:
The GD Germans ain't got nothing to do with it!
Click to expand...

THIS pronunciation! Ha!

IMG_0940.jpeg


(I know I know)
 
You know, I had forgotten that Versace was murdered by a serial killer back in the 90s.

IMG_6931.jpeg


Which is probably a couple steps-away from mis-pronouncing Euro names, isn’t it? Even less german to a Blue Globe.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, by choice. So there’s nothing special there. Seems for about the last 10 yrs of hiring (which represents more than half of all legacy pilots today), any airline here with widebodies, FOs could get a widebody FO position either right off the bat as a newhire, or very quickly shortly thereafter any seat lock.
Click to expand...

Holding a seat as the plug or near it doesn't really count.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top