United Aviate sued!

ASpilot2be said:
Yeah. There's places in Alaska looking for people. They will hire 1500 hour pilots. You never know what you will find in this industry. There's more than just shiny jets to go to after instructing.
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I'm glad I have that seaplane rating? Staying in piston singles is still kind of a lateral move though...
 
I wouldn't call CFI to Alaska flying a lateral move at all, especially if you're flying for a scheduled airline.

But ultimately it doesn't much matter, in the current (and future) hiring climate.
 
I don't know a whole lot about the academy as Aviate & Aviate Academy are pretty fenced off. My understanding is that they bought the old Westwind academy and turned it into the Aviate Academy. I have no idea if they kept most of the WW management team or dumped them all and brought in new people.

Either way, this is the issue with buying something like this and slapping your name on it. If it doesn't work out, they're coming after the multi billion dollar organization, not the clapped out flight school management.
 
jhugz said:
I don't know a whole lot about the academy as Aviate & Aviate Academy are pretty fenced off. My understanding is that they bought the old Westwind academy and turned it into the Aviate Academy. I have no idea if they kept most of the WW management team or dumped them all and brought in new people.

Either way, this is the issue with buying something like this and slapping your name on it. If it doesn't work out, they're coming after the multi billion dollar organization, not the clapped out flight school management.
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the guy that used to run Aviate either owned or at least ran WW, I have no idea how that wasn’t a conflict of interest
 
scoobs said:
That bad.
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None here in PHX, I've checked. Florida as well. so I hear. I belong to several of the Low Time pilot groups on FB. In addition to every other anonymous post related to someone with a fresh commercial cert. Wanting to not instruct, but to fly something cool at a livable wage. The other most popular type of post, besides Skywest. Is that there are no available CFI job anywhere in the country at the moment. The many anonymous posters all state that they've applied to flight schools in every possible location, and that they were ghosted, or they get a TBNT. Someone here not too long ago said that getting a low time job, which a CFI is a low time job, is more competitive than getting and interview or getting hired at Delta.

The problem is multi-faceted, so I've read. On one hand you had hiring going back to regular levels, post the best hiring phase in history. Then Boeing and Airbus had... have their supply chain issues and then the Boeing strike. So, no new plane deliveries at the majors, or anemic level of deliveries, halting hiring. So hiring was shuttered at some shops, or expectations for pilot hiring were lowered for the year. So, no one was moving up at the regional level to the legacies, or the LCC's. Then Spirit stopped hiring and Jetblue as well. Now tariffs are causing lower than expected interest in the public flying, as they're holding on to their money. With the expectation of a full blown recession. So, people are staying at the regionals longer as a result. Which means that CFI's can't move up and are also staying put at their flight schools, and 135 and 91 shops have gone equally competitive too as a result, causing hiring stagnation.

I don't speak with authority on the issue, except here in the Phoenix market. But that's what I read a lot here and on all of the FB pilot groups. One day I plan on starting my instructor ratings... one day. So, hoping that then things have started humming along by then. Otherwise I'll start free lancing. If that's not also oversaturated by the point. If that happens, maybe I'll look more closely at my employer tution reimbursement program. As they're offereing to pay the last two years of my undergrad, and also my Masters in psychology.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
None here in PHX, I've checked. Florida as well. so I hear. I belong to several of the Low Time pilot groups on FB.
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I'm in Florida, it isn't great, but there is slightly more than zero out there. You can get a gig as a CFI/CFI-I. You probably won't fly much, or be able to live off of doing it. I was flying with someone today who was contemplating bringing on another one. You pretty much need the Double-eye right now though. His thinking (not mine) is to prefer instructors with less than 500 hours, so they will stay around longer. Take that for what it is worth. The expectation on most of those gigs is that it is the only thing you do, and you are at the airport 50 hours/week, and you might fly and get paid for 10. Maybe.


Maximilian_Jenius said:
One day I plan on starting my instructor ratings... one day. So, hoping that then things have started humming along by then. Otherwise I'll start free lancing. If that's not also oversaturated by the point. If that happens, maybe I'll look more closely at my employer tution reimbursement program. As they're offereing to pay the last two years of my undergrad, and also my Masters in psychology.
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The freelance CFI route is mostly what I did. In a lot of ways, it is better. You'll make way more per hour. You can also do other flying, which depends on luck and who you know. Freelance is mostly going to be airplane owners, which means you must have enough time in type to keep an insurance company happy. So also, mostly the airplanes that flight schools don't use. But you also need to figure out how to be the person that has enough time in Bonanzas/Saratogas/Columbias/Mooneys/ or whatever. In practice, that's going to be finding owners that need instrument ratings or time in type after a purchase.
 
Malko said:
And Im sure the two dozen students had no part in any of the delays......Are there people finishing in stated times? I bet there is. Same for ATP. Hell I've been around here for 20+ years and ATP has been around longer than that. If people now are taking issue with ATP then they didn't do their homework. For someone to take issue with that is disingenuous at best.
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There were plenty of people who didn't lose money under the Madoff scam, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a scam. They just got lucky. I can see both sides of this lawsuit. On one hand, you could say that UAA or whatever entity was running it ran into unforeseen circumstances, but if they continued to sign people up under a ruse that was nearly impossible to complete, they have some liability. On the other hand, there are no guarantees in this business. You have to decide on the risk/reward yourself and take some personal responsibility.

The proof will be in the pudding. If this is serious, then the people bringing the suit should have some receipts. They still have this on their website. I would venture to guess that the number of people finishing the program in 10 months is close to zero.


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derg said:
I’ve been the ‘bad guy oldster’ in a room full of much younger people with a problem to solve without budgetary concerns. It’s not pretty.
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You've used this term oldster a couple times this week. I don't think it is real. But also my kids are too young to really know that. But are you having old guy panic attacks about being old now? Can we help? You have a little hair on top still, it isn't all gray!!!

:)
 
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