He doesn't have the time for that. Substantiate HIS claims? DO YOU KNOW who you're talking to? He's a big deal. Knows people.
United 93 - Accident Investigation
- Thread starter hambone
- Start date
He doesn't have the time for that. Substantiate HIS claims? DO YOU KNOW who you're talking to? He's a big deal. Knows people.
darrenf
resident denizen
Actually Qutch, not sure how you missed it, but I wasn't attacking your position, I was asking ATN to defend his. I was responding to someone who seems to think that because you post a snippet of video that it means what you say it means. I'm just pointing out that assumption could be wrong. Like you say, let the reader decide.
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
I recall John O'Neill was one of those who thought something was up.
Qutch
Question everything
O.K. Thanks. I could be guilty of doing the same thing, and I'll try to avoid it, but "Qutch is distorting" is a little loaded. Like "Darren is distorting" vs. "Darren did not provide the entire interview, which when viewed in it's entirety changes the context IMO." It's a subtle journalism difference, but since you were nice enough to explain it, I'll take you at your word and ask others to also. Thanks for the note. Let me know if you catch me doing it to you darren.
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Qutch
Question everything
Alright. ATN_Pilot and Darren may feel that there is some benign interpretation behind the statements made by the Commissioners. They may feel that if they can just find longer interviews, it will come off with a totally different characterization. So let's do that. I do know where to find this material, and I've reviewed it. I suppose we can search for other meanings in the longer interviews, but I don't know how we could conclude that these Commissioners are happy campers.
Simplified, the mission of the 911 Commission/Report was to investigate 911, detail the events of 911, to find the causes behind 911, and recommend safeguards against another 911. Later, the Commissioners came to believe that they had been misled in their investigation, some gave interviews. When speculating as to the reasons behind why they were misled, and why the media did not do it's job in warning the American people, Co-Chairman Lee Hamilton (a veteran Washington insider and former Congressman) said he believed that the goal was to "manipulate" the American people and "move us towards war". He also stated that the media became "cheerleaders for war". Some proponents of standing by the Official Gov't story based on the 911 Report, and advocates of halting any further discussion, have argued a series of tortured alternative interpretations behind these Commissioner interviews IMO. For example, "maybe Hamilton was just talking about the Iraq War in these interviews, and his speculation that war was the motivation behind the Govt's deception divorces the interview from any connection with 911." Somehow, proponents of these interpretations believe that the 911 Report and the Gov't get a clean bill of health in these interviews, which seems like a stretch to me (IMO).
But I can't argue darren and ATN's points for them, just help them find longer interviews to provide them with more context. So let's let Darren and ATN_Pilot explain how/if this interview gives the Gov't good marks in honesty and cooperation with the 911 Commissioners, and with the American people.
"Public opinion was manipulated" - "The media became cheerleaders for war"
"All of us need to be more skeptical of statements made by our public leaders."
darrenf
resident denizen
Hey Qutch, One more time, and maybe you'll get it this time. I didn't say you took the clip out of context, I really don't care right now if you did or didn't. I asked ATN to validate his accusation that you did. And really, neither I nor ATN said the video shows what your asking us to show it says. Nice try, so much for the honest discussion you keep claiming you want.
Qutch
Question everything
O.K. Fine. It's ATN's (and your) "distortion" accusation against me, hopefully resolved using the video evidence that ATN Pilot said he couldn't find. Now, please tell JC members what the above video shows that should make the American people feel confident with the results of the 911 Investigation, comfort with their findings regarding the aircraft hi-jackings, and should make them see me as a dishonest or deranged 'distorter' of information. Thanks.
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm glad that you finally posted the full video instead of "manipulating" Mr. Hamilton's words to fit your purpose. As everyone with eyes and ears can clearly see and hear, Mr. Hamilton was speaking purely about the lies told to the American people to facilitate a build-up to the Iraq war. He made absolutely NO comments in that video about the 9/11 Commission, or even about 9/11 at all. It was all about the Iraq war. And on that point, there is no "conspiracy theory." It is all established fact, not really in dispute by anyone of import, that the American people were fed false information leading up to the war.
This video is a perfect example of what I've been saying about you consistently: the problem isn't the sources that you use (for the most part); the problem is that you draw absolutely insane conclusions from those sources that have no basis whatsoever in reality.
This video is a perfect example of what I've been saying about you consistently: the problem isn't the sources that you use (for the most part); the problem is that you draw absolutely insane conclusions from those sources that have no basis whatsoever in reality.
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
That is a conspiracy if I've ever heard one!!
Reference post #531. So from that first clip referencing Hamilton, how could it be taken out of context that the 9-11 Commission didn't have enough money or enough time? Many members of the comity have spoke openly of this. What false conclusions could anyone draw from this? What false conclusions are you drawing from this? I am having a hard time seeing where false conclusions are drawn from members of the 9-11 Commission openly stating the same exact things Hamilton spoke of.
And I'm still waiting to see that interview you can't find.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm not going to argue with you about a partial clip. Find the full clip and we can have a conversation about what he really said, as opposed to what this conspiracy theorist on Youtube edited it to make it seem like he said.
If you're waiting for me to find it for you, then I suggest that you don't hold your breath. I have better things to do with my time than dig around Youtube for videos to convince conspiracy theorists to not be loony.
Someone very close to me was a good friend of Kelly Johnson and most of the skunkworks team. "That" person did a lot of work for them in the 70's. Also got on one of them white 737s in Vegas a few times (I found out a few hours before he died). I guess my point is the gov can hide ANYTHING!
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
So you wont argue a partial clip, yet wont find the full interview to argue your point? I think I proved my point, and the questions I asked were not subjective to argument.
Since, as previously stated, you have seen that interview of Hamilton before, how was the interview edited to a clip that has mis construed his words?
I just want to take a minute to point something out, while we're all on the same page, and we all agree that the American public was lied to and mislead in the run-up to these wars. We can all agree on that one point, correct?
Real people really died because we were lied to and deceived by the US Government, as a collective. Everybody in the Governement is responsible, equally. After we did the koombayah on the steps of the Capital, after Bush went to New York, and did the rah rah, patriotic circle jerk, young men were sent to Afghanistan, and Iraq and were killed.
One of them was my girlfriend's brother.
Army Spc. Spencer T. Karol
20, of Woodruff, Arizona.
Karol was on a mission to observe enemy activity when a command detonated device exploded. His vehicle was overturned from the force of the explosion and he was fatally injured. Karol was assigned to the 165th Military Intelligence, V Corps, Darmstadt, Germany. Died on October 6, 2003.
September 11 was the catalyst to this event. How we got to here needs to be investigated thoroughly. If the Sept 11 events were a catalyst to create an air of "Good us vs. Evil them", and the American public was deceived to continue the bloodthirst, it ought to be uncovered.
This is a healthy conversation, but one that needs to held knowing that there are people who wonder if their family members really did die in vain, for nothing.
Last night, as I was reading this very thread, my gf said to me, "If Spencer was still alive, what do you think he'd be doing?" He'd be doing something other than being dead. Because we were lied to, and deceived, as a country, he doesn't have that option.
Real people really died because we were lied to and deceived by the US Government, as a collective. Everybody in the Governement is responsible, equally. After we did the koombayah on the steps of the Capital, after Bush went to New York, and did the rah rah, patriotic circle jerk, young men were sent to Afghanistan, and Iraq and were killed.
One of them was my girlfriend's brother.
Army Spc. Spencer T. Karol
Karol was on a mission to observe enemy activity when a command detonated device exploded. His vehicle was overturned from the force of the explosion and he was fatally injured. Karol was assigned to the 165th Military Intelligence, V Corps, Darmstadt, Germany. Died on October 6, 2003.
September 11 was the catalyst to this event. How we got to here needs to be investigated thoroughly. If the Sept 11 events were a catalyst to create an air of "Good us vs. Evil them", and the American public was deceived to continue the bloodthirst, it ought to be uncovered.
This is a healthy conversation, but one that needs to held knowing that there are people who wonder if their family members really did die in vain, for nothing.
Last night, as I was reading this very thread, my gf said to me, "If Spencer was still alive, what do you think he'd be doing?" He'd be doing something other than being dead. Because we were lied to, and deceived, as a country, he doesn't have that option.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
My condolences. I regret my votes for President Bush every time I see news of another death in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Qutch
Question everything
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From the other 911 related thread going on now in the Lav (this is confusing)
Military Intelligence Officers claim that they were prevented from warning civilian authorities about the 911 suspects before the attacks, and were then ordered to destroy the evidence. After 911 they then attempted to inform the 911 Commission that they had identified the 911 hi-jackers, and were again ordered to say nothing.
Lt. Col. Anthony Schaeffer - Top Secret Intelligence Unit - Operation Able Danger
"What we have here is a major cover-up" - Congressman Weldon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fsM3oCsEJOE
TheQutch@gmail.com
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From the other 911 related thread going on now in the Lav (this is confusing)
Military Intelligence Officers claim that they were prevented from warning civilian authorities about the 911 suspects before the attacks, and were then ordered to destroy the evidence. After 911 they then attempted to inform the 911 Commission that they had identified the 911 hi-jackers, and were again ordered to say nothing.
Lt. Col. Anthony Schaeffer - Top Secret Intelligence Unit - Operation Able Danger
"What we have here is a major cover-up" - Congressman Weldon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fsM3oCsEJOE
TheQutch@gmail.com
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Multiple investigations have taken place regarding Able Danger, and all investigations have determined the same thing: no one working Able Danger ever identified any of the 9/11 terrorists prior to 9/11.
In other words, just another fanciful claim by Qutch/Data/Chris Ford cobbled together from a YouTube clip.
In other words, just another fanciful claim by Qutch/Data/Chris Ford cobbled together from a YouTube clip.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
Not nearly as entertaining as a You Tube video, but here is the entire PDF of the Senate Select Intelligence Committee's report regarding Able Danger and 9/11:
http://intelligence.senate.gov/abledanger.pdf
http://intelligence.senate.gov/abledanger.pdf
Qutch
Question everything
That's nice. But here's the thing. We did not assign a political body to investigate 911, for the purpose of distancing the investigation from political influence. Instead, we appointed a supposedly bi-partisan group to investigate it, and they now say that something is rotten. The people we appointed to investigate 911 say that the Pentagon was lying to them.
So how does throwing the Pentagon's Able Danger project, and Lt. Col. Schaeffer's accusations, back to a group of Senators for investigation resolve the matter? This is the same Intelligence Committee that helped rubber stamp Bush's WMD war against Iraq. How did that turn out? Now that these accusations have surfaced, we should have re-empowered some independent Commission to finish the job. The 911 Commission already determined that the Pentagon was engaged in some type of deception.
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TheQutch@gmail.com