Unions -- Please Answer!!!

Thanks to all of you for your replies! I'll try to convince my mom to change her opinion. She really is a nice person, she is just anti-unions.

But if that doesn't work, I think I'll have to get a Bachelor's degree in something else I like, such as meteorology, and get a job in that field and just save money religiously to pay for my own flight training, (so I won't have to sign any contract with my mother). It will cost me a few years as well as seniority at whatever airline I might end up at, but I'm still going to try to pursue becoming a professional pilot no matter what.
 
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How old are you?

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I am advanced in school for my age. I will not quite be 18 when I start college in the 2006-2007 school year.

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Maybe, if you sign an agreement in your state while under the age of reason (18?), it isn't enforceable anyway.

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Really? If that's true, that would be great! But unfortunately, a contract is a contract, isn't it?
 
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Aww, you know I'm kidding Mike!

They don't make you shave any more often in the -117 community do they?

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Unfortunately, yes. But this is good. It'll help me when I put in my package for next Thunderbirds selection window...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Speaking of 'off topic', I flew with a guy who used to fly C-119's over VN on psy-ops missions. Hilarious guy to talk to!

"Dis..Is...Radio...Vietnam....Ho....Chi....Minh....has....a...gay....lover...."

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Mega cool. C-119s were a bad-ass plane. Special ops, even Air America-style stuff, would've been cool to do. I was born 25 years too late.
 
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It'll help me when I put in my package for next Thunderbirds selection window...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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You're just secretly dying for your own ascot aren't you???
 
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Unions rock. This profession wouldn't be a fraction of what it is now without unions.

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Go ask the NJA guys about what a "wonderful" job their union has done for them recently... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Have you seen their new TA that took 3 years to negotiate? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
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Where can I find this article?

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Sorry, didn't realize it was a book. I'll buy it when I get the chance.
 
Stormflyer
Since you posted this in the pro Pilot Corner I assume you are sincere in pursueing your dream of being an airline pilot.

With that said let me start by saying you are not ready to be a pilot ... not right now anyway. The reason I say this is because as a professional pilot it will be incumbant upon you to make important decisions not on your mother. I am a little surprised to see every one "jump" on your mother when its you we should be chastising. Granted she supposobably should be mature and wise enough to realize that her request of you is totally unrealistic and "unfair". You get credit for your youth, but that won't last long. You need to be decisive and learn to stand on your own two feet. You can learn to do this without alienating your relationship, but that is really up to your mother to how she wants to accept your growing up.

If you want to "make" it in aviation or any other aspect of life you will need to break the apron string of manipulation that she has on you. Your issues with her are larger than whether she pays for your flight training or not. Good luck.

Jim
 
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Unions rock. This profession wouldn't be a fraction of what it is now without unions.

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Go ask the NJA guys about what a "wonderful" job their union has done for them recently... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Have you seen their new TA that took 3 years to negotiate? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

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A union is only as good/strong as its members make it ... don't like your (the universal you) uninon? Change it. Not rocket science! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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A union is only as good/strong as its members make it ... don't like your (the universal you) uninon? Change it. Not rocket science!

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I'm hoping this happens at Mesa in too long. Seems to me like their union reps right now are being more reactive than proactive, especially when it comes to the 737 possibilities. Saying it'll never happen, then wake up one morning and JO has 'em flying 737s for RJ wages b/c they didn't negotiate the wages.
 
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With that said let me start by saying you are not ready to be a pilot ... not right now anyway. The reason I say this is because as a professional pilot it will be incumbant upon you to make important decisions not on your mother. I am a little surprised to see every one "jump" on your mother when its you we should be chastising.

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Umm...I definitely would rather make decisions on my own, rather than let my mother dictate things. But I don't have thousands of dollars available to pay my way though my own training! I'm going to be reliant on my parents for this reason...unless you're telling me that I should stop complaining and wait until later in life to pursue becoming a pilot. But then I'd be years behind what I could have done if I started when I was in college.

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Your issues with her are larger than whether she pays for your flight training or not.

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I don't exactly see what you mean by this, but strictly talking about paying for flight training, the only way that could be done while I am in college realistically is for my mother to pay for it! Tell me if I am mistaken, but any on-campus job I might get is probably not going to be enough to cover flight training.

So, assuming that my assumptions are correct, are you basically saying that everyone should chastise me because I have been fairly insistent on getting my flight training while in college? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
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But I don't have thousands of dollars available to pay my way though my own training!

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Neither do most of the people who become airline pliots. Including most of the people on this board.

Get a job pumping gas at an FBO while you are in college.

Enlist in the military and use the VA education benifits. (this is what I did)

Join the military as an officer and get trained by Uncle Sam.

If you really have to take out student loans.


I don't mean to offend, but having mom or dad pay for all of it rarely works out in the end. If you can get them to help then great, but depending on someone else to get you to your dream rarely works out.

The road to the left seat on a 747 is a very long one, with a ton of work and sacrifice involved. It's been my experiance that the people who didn't have to work hard for it often don't have the perseverance to go the distance.
 
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If you really have to take out student loans.

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Forgive me for being dumb, but I honestly thought that your parents have to be involved in taking out a loan. I guess I now know that is just for financial aid. But don't loans for college students count as financial aid? For most financial aid, you have to disclose what your parents earn, etc., which means that they have to be involved! I could be totally wrong about this, however.

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I don't mean to offend, but having mom or dad pay for all of it rarely works out in the end. If you can get them to help then great, but depending on someone else to get you to your dream rarely works out.

The road to the left seat on a 747 is a very long one, with a ton of work and sacrifice involved. It's been my experiance that the people who didn't have to work hard for it often don't have the perseverance to go the distance.


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I apologize if I am sounding spoiled to you. Believe me, I understand the hard work and sacrifice needed. But really, I didn't intend for this to be a discussion of how to pay for flight training. I meant for it to simply be about my mother's opposition to unions and probably the career of being a pilot in general, and how to respond to that.
 
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A union is only as good/strong as its members make it ... don't like your (the universal you) uninon? Change it. Not rocket science! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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MUCH easier said than done...
 
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A union is only as good/strong as its members make it ... don't like your (the universal you) uninon? Change it. Not rocket science! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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MUCH easier said than done...

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When was ANYTHING in aviation easy? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Back to the question at hand

"I meant for it to simply be about my mother's opposition to unions and probably the career of being a pilot in general, and how to respond to that."

It's pretty hard to respond to your mom's position, beyond saying it's silly, without more information to fully understand why she feels that way. Unless you understand the problem it's pretty hard to work around it.

It would be nice if your parents could fund your education....you'd be lucky. Perhaps, you could start by talking her into funding college and a non-aviation degree. Do something besides aviation in college...she might support that. Maybe you could take lessons on the side.

Heck...if she just hates airline pilots, tell her you would rather be a corporate pilot.
 
Re: Back to the question at hand

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It's pretty hard to respond to your mom's position, beyond saying it's silly, without more information to fully understand why she feels that way. Unless you understand the problem it's pretty hard to work around it.


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That's exactly what I wanted help on...what to respond to her. Her opinion is like, "If you are being paid to do a job, you should work." Going on strike would be wrong in her opinion. I try to explain what the implications are of being a scab, in addition to all of the work that it takes to be a pilot, AND all of the opportunities to lose your career such as a failed medical or busted checkride. She responds sort of like, "Tough cookies."

She also says that unions are too stubborn, and that pilots are overpaid. I say, "Look at those new-hires at American Eagle that get paid $18K a year." She says, "No, not them, but the ones that get $200K." I don't really know how to respond to this. She points to the President of the U.S., who gets $400K, or something like that.

Also, she says that I am smart and I have a lot to contribute to the world. She kind of thinks it is pointless and a waste to be a pilot, because you are transporting people around. She thinks it could get boring. I agree it could be a little routine at times, but I know that I would ultimately like the job. You can see why the "glorified bus driver" comment comes up. She knows there is more to flying than to bus driving, but I don't think she quite realizes the full extent of things. Maybe I should show her an ILS approach chart, or something, I don't know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

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It would be nice if your parents could fund your education....you'd be lucky. Perhaps, you could start by talking her into funding college and a non-aviation degree. Do something besides aviation in college...she might support that. Maybe you could take lessons on the side.


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Actually, it's not that bad. She believes in people going to the right college that will suit them best, regardless of the cost. She is definitely going to pay for me to go to college. In fact, she'd be willing to pay the big bucks for me to go to Embry-Riddle to study aviation science along with meteorology....as long as I sign that agreement about not ever going on strike, which I'm not going to do because I don't want to have to be a "scab". That was the original question that I wanted to ask everyone. In the end, if I can't convince her to change my mind, I'm just going to have to fund my flight training myself, and my mom will pay the money for me to at least get a degree in something else.
 
Re: Back to the question at hand

ahhh, just sign her stupid agreement...get her to pay for college, then go on strike if the time comes.

Cmon, its your mom...whats she gonna do if you don't pay her back...get a couple guys to break your legs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

by that time you'll be grown up and living out on your own half way across the country anyway...she probably wouldn't even know if you ever went on strike if you kept your mouth shut. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: Back to the question at hand

Would your mom feel the same way about going on strike in ANY industry or just aviation? Have you talked to her about how important it is to do something you love? Have you told her how much you appreciate her offer of help but that you would hope that help came out of love and a desire for you to succeed and that her personal issues with a small part of the business shouldn't have any bearing on her willingness to help? Ask her if she would prefer that you do it all on your own since you don't want to become a scab and waste all her investment by losing your job. Perhaps tell her that if there are going to be any strings attached, it should be that you keep your grades up and stay out of trouble, and that making this contract is impossible because you have no idea where you will be, IF it ever happens and how it will impact your life. Would she want you to do something at say, the age of 40, that would leave you with no way to support your wife and children because you wouldn't follow your union? And then what will become of you? Will she take you in while you find a job in another feild? I think what you need to do is just keep talking and talking and see if you can understand each other and come to some middle ground. I wouldn't sign any contract like that, whether it would ever hold up or not, just because I don't think that's how you treat family.
 
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but strictly talking about paying for flight training, the only way that could be done while I am in college realistically is for my mother to pay for it! Tell me if I am mistaken, but any on-campus job I might get is probably not going to be enough to cover flight training.

[/ QUOTE ] it will pay for flight training if you use all the money you accrue from a part time job (while going to college) for flight training.. it doens't take long to accrue, you just have to get a good part-time job and save save save! it can be done!
 
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