Unions Furious With Exclusion of Employees in UAL Payout

[derg]

The reason I think the RLA is outdated is the sheer number of carriers operating on our domestic route structure. Back in the "old days", if American went on strike, half of Chicago is going to be shut downs, Dallas comes to a stand-still and all of the EAS routes that the gub'mint's paying AA to fly are kaput.

However, if AA took a three day strike, it'd cause chaos, mostly amongst leisure travelers, but it certainly wouldn't cripple any major economic centers.

So the 'crutch' that the RLA is supposed to provide has actually become a weapon in dragging out section six negotiations and the omnipresent threat of a PEB serves to make the whole process as arduous as possible.

 

[Velocipede]

Right. The RLA is a hold over from the turn of the 20th century. To think we're administering tranportation systems in the 21st century with this oudated POS is amazing.

 

[DenverPilot8]

I was an airline employee for over 10 years; I understand this perfectly well. However, this is true of many professions. Airline employees are hardly unique in this regard. But, unlike most other types of employees, airline employees are in a position to affect the company's bottom line, for better or worse. A single action of an individual airline employee can save (or cost) the airline hundreds or thousands of dollars. Knowing this, why would any airline employee deliberately sabotage their employer, especially when they know that they have to start all over again if their employer fails?

I would have to disagree that most other professions are the same. From the sales/business background I have it would be very unlikely that if I left the regional sales job I have now and swithced companies that I would end up at the bottom doing a worse sales job. The reason why people stay at a certain company in business is to not only build their resume but to also show stability and give themselves the ability to move upward. The airline job switch on the other hand forces you to the bottom when making the switch. It doesn't matter if you were a senior captain (senior manager equivalent in business world) you still have to start at the bottom of the list on 1st year pay (entry level sales associate equivalent in business world). I'm pretty sure there are not too many mangaers that are taking entry level sales jobs.

Also, airline pilots are very unique when it comes the way they are paid. Imagine if you were only paid while performing certain tasks in the business world. What if the company only paid you while you were at your desk (in the cockpit flying equivalent for airline pilots). But you were not paid for the time you spent going to the copy machine, going to the bathroom, sitting in board meetings or any other thing that comes with doing the job (waiting at the airport equvalent for pilots)

 

[P&H]

Here's the question of the day.

Is the Railway Labor Act outdated?

Should we be allowed to drop trow and strike like European transportation labor can?

If management can rape and pillage as they please (and do) we should have every right to drop trow and strike like the Euro transport industry.

 

[flyover]

You forget that United's employees WERE those investors and shareholders prior to management using 9/11 as an excuse to drive the company into bankruptcy and STEAL all the equity labor had acquired in the previous company reorganization.

UAL employees made a big mistake when they pushed for equity in the company. Essentially they ended up with a stake in a failed company, which was worthless even before 9/11. If you want to be a stockholder instead of an employee then you lose your equity along with all the other stockholders.

 

[seaav8tor]

McCain is still waiting to push his baseball-style arbitration bill through the system.

I am as apolitical as they come, but the fact is this; If McCain sits in the oval office the ramifications to the airline pilot career will make 9-11 look like a walk in the park. He will not sleep until the job he was cheated out of is no longer worth having.

"Revenge is a dish best served cold"

It's very cold outside as a homeless airline pilot walking down the road kicking empty beer cans in the snow.

 

[seaav8tor]

This is my first post on these forums, so please let me know if I am way off base here. Recently I was reading a post similar to this one about unions and their lack of bargaining leverage. Someone during the discussion made the suggestion that all pilots entering 121 jobs should have to pass an entrance exam (similar to the bar exam for lawyers). No one at the time seemed to pay any attention to this suggestion, but after giving it some thought and looking at the effects it would have on bargaining between management and pilots I believe the idea is worth reiterating. I believe if such an exam, perhaps including a written test and an interview with a group of designated line pilots from your prospective employer, were instated it would diminish the supply of qualified pilots and thus give pilots greater bargaining leverage with management. Also a by product of this system would be the obligation of management to only hire qualified and professional pilots (no more reducing hiring minimums to avoid raising pay rates). If this were to effectively reduce the supply of pilots, we would end up on the positive side of the supply and demand curve, thus giving us greater leverage in dealing with management. I would suggest that in order for a pilot to qualify for the exam that he or she hold at least a bachelors degree in some technical major and meet some minimum amount of flying experience. After qualifying for the exam, if the pilot were hired by an airline the airline would then have to submit the applicant to be interviewed by a board of line pilots designated by the MEC. If said pilot jumps through all of the hoops he or she then would become certified by ALPA to work for 121 carrier (kind of in the same way the bar certifies lawyers). It is my opinion that a pilot should only have to go through this process once. While the RLA may not change anytime soon, I believe if ALPA national were to really push for this in all ALPA negotiated contracts, we would be able to shift negotiating power back to our side. Sorry in advance for the long post, let me know what you think.

For a first post, excellent.

--- Two ways to skin a cat --- (increase safety) ---

AMA has focused for decades on getting the most highly qualified individuals society can offer to enter medicine. Specifically, surgery. The MD with the knife needs to be (no pun intended) a cut above the guy with the ballpoint. (I know what Edward Bulwer-Lytton wrote). Get the quality people in medicine and quality care will follow. Limit supply.

Medicine is now heavily subsidized through government programs, Medicare, Medicaid, NIH grants, tax exemptions for hospitals, Professional services, Health care spending accounts, health plans sponsored by public and private employers. This is just a few items at the tip of the iceberg. All of this funnels GNP dollars into health care (doctors pay). This is simply an observation with no desire to discuss merit.

ALPA has spent a significant amount of its resources working safety issues from the opposite direction. Identify the risk or problem then find a solution to eliminate it. They have been so successful we now have many rules, regulations, equipment, procedures, etc that have ALPA identified origins. There has been no concerted effort to limit supply as the AMA.

The airline safety record has become so robust the industry leaders now feel comfortable lowering the bar on pilot qualifications in an effort to reduce costs. We have in a very real way created a significant part of our own demise.