Unconscious - Medical History

My Flight Surgeon

Sr. Aviation Medical Examiner
This is the third of a series of threads regarding the history portion of the FAA Form 8500-8 that you complete every time you get a flight physical. For the vast majority of you, this will be just informational and you will not be affected. As with many of the conditions discussed here and elsewhere in these threads, there is a requirement for the pilot to provide medical records and physician documentation regarding the medical condition being reported. I would suggest that if you are unsure of how to answer these questions in Item 18, you discuss them with your AME before you complete the form. Some things may not be significant while others will require explanation.

Item18c. Unconsciousness for any reason

Unconsciousness

Unconsciousness occurs often. It may be rather benign such as having way too much to drink (not pilots:nana2: ), passing out while at attention during military ceremonies, or having one’s “bell rung” :banghead: in a sporting event. These are usually not significant and if they occur only once there is no real problem with the episode of unconsciousness. Discuss these episodes with the AME before you check the box 18c on the medical history form if you are unsure of whether it was significant or not.

The real problem arises when there has been more than one episode of unconsciousness, have been seizures associated with the episode(s) or the unconsciousness lasted for more than a minute. This is when you should describe the event(s) to determine the primary organ system responsible for the episode, witness statements, initial treatment, and evidence of recurrence or prior episode. Although the regulation states, “an unexplained disturbance of consciousness is disqualifying,” it does not mean to imply that the applicant can be certificated if the etiology (cause) is identified, because the etiology may also be disqualifying in and of itself. It is these underlying causes that the FAA wants to review. Some of the diseases (this is not an all-inclusive list) that can cause incapacitation include: stroke, brain tumor, post-traumatic head injury (concussion), meningitis or encephalitis, seizures, loss of consciousness without explanation, skull fracture, and unconsciousness or disorientation of more than 1 hour following injury. The difficulty with many of these conditions is the potential of physical incapacitation they represent.

When a history of any of these occurs, a medical report needs to be submitted to the FAA via the AME. These should include hospital records, consultation reports, and appropriate laboratory and imaging studies, if available. The AME may be able to review the data and determine that the episode is easily explained and does not require FAA review. If review is required, the AME may wish to call the FAA and talk directly to the duty officer. Frequently, if all the data is available, the duty officer will authorize issuance of the medical certificate and ask the AME to forward all of the supporting documents to the FAA for review and filing. Be sure to take copies of these documents to you flight physical with you!

The important take home points regarding unconsciousness include: 1) simple episodes like having your bell rung do not lead to disqualification, 2) full recovery with a good medical evaluation allows one to fly after head injury, and 3) there are neurological conditions that are disqualifying, such as epilepsy.
 
This brings up an issue. A friend of mine (who happens to be a fellow JCer) has passed out twice. Once immediately after rolling onto his ankle and another right after complaining that his toe hurt. Other than that these were random occurrances. The second time he actually passed out twice in a row. Should this be a concern for him?
 
A more extensive medical history will be required for a definitive answer. This sounds like a response to pain and should not be an issue since there appears to be a logical, simple explanation and there is no history of other neurological problems.
 
How does getting knocked out or having a concussion from a sporting event affect someone already having a second class medical?
Shane
 
It is the same. If the unconsciousness was less than a minute (got your bell rung) and you have no loss of memory, function normally and have no headaches then you are probably OK to fly. If it is more than that, you should not fly and you must gather all of the medical records and submit them to the FAA for consideration. Remember, You are prohibited from acting as pilot-in-command or as a required pilot flight crewmember during any medical deficiency that would be disqualifying or may interfere with the safe operation of an aircraft. It is under 14CFR61.53.
 
You are prohibited from acting as pilot-in-command or as a required pilot flight crewmember during any medical deficiency that would be disqualifying or may interfere with the safe operation of an aircraft. It is under 14CFR61.53.

The regulation reads "Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation".

The regs list a number of conditions which are automatically disqualifying, but there are apparently a lot of disqualifying conditions not listed, and some certifications are contingent upon FAA approval and others are up to the discretion of the AME, who may differ from other AME's about the appropriate standards.

So the question is, "When does the pilot 'know' that a condition would not meet the requirements", when the FAA or the AME himself might not know until the situation is evaluated. As long as the condition isn't automatically disqualifying, seems safer not to ask until the certificate comes up for renewal.
 
The regulation reads "Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation".

The regs list a number of conditions which are automatically disqualifying, but there are apparently a lot of disqualifying conditions not listed, and some certifications are contingent upon FAA approval and others are up to the discretion of the AME, who may differ from other AME's about the appropriate standards.

So the question is, "When does the pilot 'know' that a condition would not meet the requirements", when the FAA or the AME himself might not know until the situation is evaluated. As long as the condition isn't automatically disqualifying, seems safer not to ask until the certificate comes up for renewal.

Yes, it always helps to bury your head in the sand.:whatever:

Obviously, if the question is being asked, he has reason to know the condition may be disqualifying.
 
The reason I asked was as I was working out the other day a guy in the octagon next to me got his bell rung. I started to wonder what would happen if I took one on the chin or something. I quit fighting when I went back to flying but I still train.
Shane
 
When I think of boxing, I think of Ali and his Dementia Pugilistica (DP), otherwise known as Punch Drunk - or Boxer's Syndrome. Hard to pass a CogScreen and fly with that.
 
Yes, it always helps to bury your head in the sand.

Well, not always, but possibly sometimes. :) There are a number of statutes where the prosecution must prove what someone knew ahead of time, like perjury or fraud, and that's considered very difficult. In those cases, having plausible deniability can be an advantage. But I'd have to know the FAA enforcement history and pertinent NTSB rulings to know in this instance whether pleading ignorance would help.

But the origin of the question comes from this position of AOPA:
...in the opinion of the treating physician and his/her discussions with you as the patient/pilot, if the condition does not render you "unable to meet the requirements" of FAR Part 67, you may continue operating on your current medical until the normal date of expiration.

So it appears that the opinion of AOPA is that the pilot should be expect to self-ground only if his condition is listed in the Part 67, and not on anything the FAA might keep on secret lists in the heart of their bureaucracy. Of course, if the pilot feels that his condition makes him unsafe to fly, different story.

An AME told a friend of mine he couldn't fly due to a thyroid condition, so he remained on the ground while the paperwork went through the FAA. According to the AOPA position, the grounding was unnecessary, since the thyroid problem wasn't listed in Part 67 and he was ultimately cleared to fly, so it was evidently not a disqualifying condition.
 
Sounds like you are stretching here. If you use the argument about thyroid disease, the FAA has published guidance, http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...e/app_process/exam_tech/item48/amd/endocrine/
that is in the public purview. It clearly indicates thyroid disorders are disqualifying and require a special issuance.

You may want to put your ticket on the line but I would rather help pilots retain their license and medical by properly utilizing the system that is in place.
 
Sounds like you are stretching here.

No, I'm merely telling you what AOPA is telling pilots and asking for insight.

The FAA website is guidance for AME's, not pilots, according to the heading of "
Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners". The FAA provides no guidance on much of anything to pilots regarding regulations.

 
The best thing one can do is have an AME who is their advocate. The majority of the time we can gather all of the required documentation, fax it to the FAA and talk with an FAA physician on the phone who will approve flying for the pilot. One of the problems with the system is that the majority of AME's perform so few exams that they are unfamiliar with the process and/or unwilling to take the time out of a busy schedule to provide such services.

As an AOPA member since 1969, I view their opinion on many issues with great caution.
 
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