UFO over Hilo

[A Life Aloft]

 

[A Life Aloft]

 

[SeanD]

The one thing that has always baffled me is the rate at which our technology has grown since the 1950's. The Romans ruled for hundreds of years but never really innovated past aqueducts and architecture and the same goes for the Ming Dynasty and so on. The way I see it, we aren't the only complex civilization that's ever existed. I cant sell my ancestors short by saying they were far less intelligent then people today. That just wouldn't be true. I guess I feel there is a missing link somewhere in there that somehow allowed us to progress to where we are today.
I had a conversation and debate one night with my brother. We came to a hypothetical conclusion that there might have actually been some sort of incident in Roswell where a craft and its technology were recovered and gave us a some sort of technological platform to build on. As stupid as it might sound to some, it does make sense. I dunno, deep crazy thoughts

 

[Qutch]

You've [ATN_Pilot] mentioned Jim Bob and Cletus many times. You know, not every person who claims to have been contacted is a backwoods redneck. Many "normal" non-redneck people have made the same claims........

I believe this is correct. One of the tactics that the practitioners of fear, ridicule and disinformation use is to post videos and tales of the most absurd UFO claims in order to turn people away from the topic. Portraying all of those interested in the topic as "Jim Bobs" and fools tends to chill the dialogue and send many people away, or drive them underground to hold private conversations away from the public post. That's unfortunate, because there has been interesting testimony from credible individuals and sources that justify more serious discussion. Many of those are retired US Military personnel with nothing to gain from telling their stories. Unfortunately, we have not seen them presented on this thread. I've never seen a UFO and I know little about them. But I'd really appreciate hearing from those more credible sources, without all the mean-spirited unproductive ridicule.
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[Qutch]

.
Astronaut Gordon Cooper - Letter Appealing to the United Nations

Gordon Cooper claimed to have had several encounters with what he believed were alien craft. In one case he claims he tried chasing them in his fighter aircraft. In another incident, he claimed that film he obtained of a craft was taken away by the Gov't and never seen again. After his retirement, frustrated at what he thought were Gov't attempts to cover-up evidence, and disappointed that fellow astronauts felt pressure not to discuss the issue, he went public in a written appeal to the United Nations. I don't know what the significance of Cooper's letter may be. But it's interesting, and it's more credible than the "Jim Bob" ridicule videos being posted above. Video of Cooper discussing his UFO encounters is readily available online.

Cooper at the United Nations - far left of photo

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November 9, 1978

Ambassador Griffith
United Nations
866 Second Avenue
Suite 502
New York, New York 10017

Dear Ambassador Griffith:

I wanted to convey to you my views on our extra-terrestrial visitors popularly referred to as "UFO's", and suggest what might be done to properly deal with them.

I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion. We may first have to show them that we have learned to resolve our problems by peaceful means, rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. This acceptance would have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the UN has a vested interest in handling this subject properly and expeditiously.

I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher. I have not yet had the privilege of flying a UFO, nor of meeting the crew of one. I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas in which they travel. Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over Europe. They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters of that time.

I would also like to point out that most astronauts are very reluctant to even discuss UFO's due to the great numbers of people who have indiscriminately sold fake stories and forged documents abusing their names and reputations without hesitation. Those few astronauts who have continued to have a participation in the UFO field have had to do so very cautiously. There are several of us who do believe in UFO's and who have had occasion to see a UFO on the ground, or from an airplane. There was only one occasion from space which may have been a UFO.

If the UN agrees to pursue this project, and to lend their credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information.

I am looking forward to seeing you soon.

Sincerely,

L. Gordon Cooper
Col. USAF (ret)
Astronaut "
.

 

[inigo88]

I freakin love Gordo Cooper. I learned about him as a kid watching the movie 'The Right Stuff,' where he was played by Dennis Quaid. Any self respecting pilot should be familiar with this scene.

"Honey, who's the best pilot you ever saw?"

Until recently I had no idea that later in his life Cooper was one of the most outspoken UFO advocates of the former NASA astronauts.



The good part starts at 1:29. If you don't want to watch, the TL;DR is him explaining two separate incidents. The first is an anecdote from early in his Air Force career where he was apparently involved in a large scale UFO intercept. But the second one at 1:29 really blew me away... where he describes working flight test support at Edwards around 1957, when a couple of guys who worked under him ran into his office saying they had just filmed a "flying saucer" land right in front of them on the dry lake bed, wait for them to approach and then takeoff again and speed away. They apparently developed the film, reviewed it, shipped it to Washington in accordance with proper procedure and never heard from anyone regarding the issue ever again.

Then there's Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the 6th man to walk on the moon, who has been very vocal in support of the 1947 Roswell New Mexico ufo crash conspiracy theory. He did this radio interview in 2008:

The first 2 minutes give you the gist of it.

Chase Brandon, a retired CIA-agent (who worked as the agency's media liaison for many years), gave an interview earlier this year in which he said sometime in the nineties he was in the CIA's "Historical Intelligence Collection" section of their library in Langley, found a box labeled "Roswell" - opened it - and saw something inside that convinced him "Roswell happened."


Finally there's Story Musgrave. He's a retired NASA astronaut who flew on 6 space shuttle missions. Yeah... he believes in aliens too, and gave a lecture about first contact to a UFO conference in 2011:


Certainly none of this is indisputable proof of anything. A lot of it is either second hand (Mitchell) or vague (Brandon). But I do think it's fascinating that so many of these guys have come out of the wood work later in their lives and risked their reputations to talk about this taboo subject. The men I mentioned above have some serious credentials in the scientific, aerospace and intelligence communities. It sort of throws a wrench into the whole premise that the only people who believe in UFOs are named Cletus and get "probed" (although I think they far outnumber everyone else lol).

As for me I don't know what to believe. But I have so much respect for Cooper and Mitchell (both former astronauts), that it's definitely made me reconsider a lot of this stuff with a more open mind.



Edit: Damn that was a lot of youtube videos. I'm turning into Qutch! ..

 

[inigo88]

That guy is AWESOME! "They could be made of water man!!!"

 

[Cloud Surfer]

The one thing that has always baffled me is the rate at which our technology has grown since the 1950's. The Romans ruled for hundreds of years but never really innovated past aqueducts and architecture and the same goes for the Ming Dynasty and so on. The way I see it, we aren't the only complex civilization that's ever existed. I cant sell my ancestors short by saying they were far less intelligent then people today. That just wouldn't be true. I guess I feel there is a missing link somewhere in there that somehow allowed us to progress to where we are today.
I had a conversation and debate one night with my brother. We came to a hypothetical conclusion that there might have actually been some sort of incident in Roswell where a craft and its technology were recovered and gave us a some sort of technological platform to build on. As stupid as it might sound to some, it does make sense. I dunno, deep crazy thoughts

Ah, but our technology has only grown because corporations see huge profits in furthering R&D for clientele. You want a new computer with more storage? No problem, Microsoft is on it. Do the airlines want new fuel-efficient airplanes? No problem, Boeing is on it. If you look back in time, you'll witness that every bit of technology that we have today is grounded in small "baby" steps which were only made possible because of the scientific advances throughout the centuries.

As for the Roswell crash, it was likely just a top-secret U.S. Air Force aircraft. Even if an alien spacecraft were recovered there, we have about as much chance of understanding how its technology works as the Romans do of understanding how the Space Shuttle works. And even if the Romans DID manage to understand it, they won't have the industrial network available to make one. Reverse-engineering a spacecraft of a civilization which is thousands if not millions of years ahead of ours isn't as easy as some would like to believe.

 

[staledog]

My argument has never been that they don't want to keep things secret. My argument has always been that such elaborate secrets are impossible to keep.

Your argument is weak, and you are talking in circles.

They may want to keep these secrets, but it's impossible.

It's not impossible to keep elaborate secrets. I'm sure there are plenty of "elaborate secrets" that we, the general public, do not know about. I don't know where YOU draw the line between "elaborate secrets" which are impossible to keep, and "not-so-elaborate" secrets which are, in fact, kept.

Whistle-blowers would always come forward, evidence would be leaked, etc. But that hasn't happened.

Actually, that has happened, many times. Do some research.

Take a look at Wikileaks, for example. Assange has come out and said that with all of the data he's received from an incredible number of sources within government, he has yet to receive anything on UFOs or aliens. The most he's seen, as he said in a recent interview, is government concern about cults that worship UFOs and aliens. If even the mighty Julian Assange can't get whistleblowers to provide the slightest bit of evidence about UFOs or aliens, then I'm sorry, but it doesn't exist. Such huge secrets can't be kept in a bureaucracy.

Your final argument here is based on the Wikileaks guy? You are assuming that every person who wants to come forward with secret information, about E.T.'s or anything else, is going to go through him? One guy, who has had the Wikileaks website since only 2006, is now the keeper of all the world's secrets? I don't think so.

 

[staledog]

(After quoting Matt13C as saying "Do we try and communicate with primates")...

Do some research. There is actually a ton of work that scientists do in trying to develop communication with primates.

Very profound. Although, what Matt C13C said was "Do we try and communicate with primates, our closest genetic relatives who are capable of understanding and reacting to human speech, when we go and knock down acres of rainforest?"

Your answer quoted above, about how we try to communicate with primates, has nothing to do with what Matt13C was talking about. Maybe you should actually read what people post and quote their entire sentences, instead of quoting fragments which totally changes the meaning.

 

[pullup]

Aliens have been ingrained in cultures for a long long time. There are references to them in carvings/paintings for thousands of years. ATN_Pilot says that peoples descriptions fit Hollywood, maybe Hollywood is based on people's original descriptions?

Regarding communications, how do we know they aren't trying? You ever communicate with a chimpanzee? No? Well their DNA is only like 2% different than ours. What if aliens were 2% or even more different than ours? I'm sure we think we're advanced but I'm sure chimps think they're advanced as well.

For whoever said physics limits is for how fast we can travel, I don't have time now but recently they have shown its possible to go faster than the speed of light. I'll look it up later.

To think that we are the only intelligent beings in a 70,000,000,000 galaxy universe seems a bit naive, probability alone would say there's a whole crapton out there. Now whether they exist in the same time frame as us is a whole different discussion.

 

[Maurus]

Aliens have been ingrained in cultures for a long long time. There are references to them in carvings/paintings for thousands of years. ATN_Pilot says that peoples descriptions fit Hollywood, maybe Hollywood is based on people's original descriptions?

Regarding communications, how do we know they aren't trying? You ever communicate with a chimpanzee? No? Well their DNA is only like 2% different than ours. What if aliens were 2% or even more different than ours? I'm sure we think we're advanced but I'm sure chimps think they're advanced as well.

For whoever said physics limits is for how fast we can travel, I don't have time now but recently they have shown its possible to go faster than the speed of light. I'll look it up later.

Our communication work with champs is done face to face with us teaching them sign language. If aliens were trying to communicate they are doing a poor job at it.

The faster than light discovery was debunked.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Aliens have been ingrained in cultures for a long long time. There are references to them in carvings/paintings for thousands of years. ATN_Pilot says that peoples descriptions fit Hollywood, maybe Hollywood is based on people's original descriptions?

Nope. Do some research. Philip Klass, renowned UFO debunker, did some excellent work on showing how alleged abductees' descriptions of aliens changed over time, based upon which presentation was predominant in the media at the time. Prior to 1960, aliens were almost always described in a wide variety of ways by the small number of people who had claimed abduction up until that point. Anything from insect-like, to walking lizards, and everything in between. But prior to that point, it was never the now-famous look of the enlarged head, widened at top, with large almond-shaped black eyes. The first time an alien was described by an alleged abductee as having "large, wrap-around eyes," was the Betty and Barney Hill incident in 1961 (sometimes called the "Zeta Riticuli Incident). In hypnosis sessions following their claimed abduction, Betty described the alien with these eyes. But guess what? It just so happens, that just two weeks prior to this claim, an episode of "The Outer Limits" featured aliens with this look. It was the first time that aliens had been portrayed this way in fiction. And guess what? Although it was originally claimed by Betty that she never watched this show, it was later revealed that she did indeed see this exact episode on TV prior to her claim. Pretty big coincidence, don't you think?

But as time goes on through the following decades, the alien image evolves. Abductee claims of alien appearance perfectly matches the famous alien movies of the time. From "The Outer Limits" to "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" to "Communion," the alien appearance always modifies in abduction claims to match the media of the day. So, either these aliens are modifying their appearance so as to make Hollywood look authentic, or these abductees are full of you-know-what. Guess which one is more likely?

Regarding communications, how do we know they aren't trying? You ever communicate with a chimpanzee?

Already addressed above.

For whoever said physics limits is for how fast we can travel, I don't have time now but recently they have shown its possible to go faster than the speed of light. I'll look it up later.

Again, already addressed. But I don't claim that it's impossible to travel faster than light. I'm sure a "work-around" will be found at some point in our future, unless we manage to destroy ourselves before then. And maybe some other alien culture has found that work-around already. But if they have, there is no evidence that they've used it to visit us.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

You know, I have to ask this at some point. Even if someone managed to prove that aliens have visited/are visiting Earth, how exactly does it matter in the slightest? Aliens could be in the bushes watching us 24/7 for all that we know, but the same problems that we are faced with today will still be here tomorrow; like low pay, school shootings, economic hopelessness and so forth....

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Well, one would hope that through interaction with peaceful aliens, we might be able to solve some problems.

 

[pullup]

Our communication work with champs is done face to face with us teaching them sign language. If aliens were trying to communicate they are doing a poor job at it.

Maybe they don't care. We don't try and communicate with all the species on earth. As some have said, people claim to have met aliens face to face and received dialogue usually through a form of telepathy, most are laughed off.

The faster than light discovery was debunked.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

No it wasn't, it was another team saying they don't think it was true but they couldn't positively show that. We are continuing to delve depper and deeper into physics, I believe we have barely scratched the surface.[/quote][/quote]

 

[pullup]

Nope. Do some research. Philip Klass, renowned UFO debunker, did some excellent work on showing how alleged abductees' descriptions of aliens changed over time, based upon which presentation was predominant in the media at the time. Prior to 1960, aliens were almost always described in a wide variety of ways by the small number of people who had claimed abduction up until that point. Anything from insect-like, to walking lizards, and everything in between. But prior to that point, it was never the now-famous look of the enlarged head, widened at top, with large almond-shaped black eyes. The first time an alien was described by an alleged abductee as having "large, wrap-around eyes," was the Betty and Barney Hill incident in 1961 (sometimes called the "Zeta Riticuli Incident). In hypnosis sessions following their claimed abduction, Betty described the alien with these eyes. But guess what? It just so happens, that just two weeks prior to this claim, an episode of "The Outer Limits" featured aliens with this look. It was the first time that aliens had been portrayed this way in fiction. And guess what? Although it was originally claimed by Betty that she never watched this show, it was later revealed that she did indeed see this exact episode on TV prior to her claim. Pretty big coincidence, don't you think?

But as time goes on through the following decades, the alien image evolves. Abductee claims of alien appearance perfectly matches the famous alien movies of the time. From "The Outer Limits" to "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" to "Communion," the alien appearance always modifies in abduction claims to match the media of the day. So, either these aliens are modifying their appearance so as to make Hollywood look authentic, or these abductees are full of you-know-what. Guess which one is more likely?

Good info, thanks.

But I don't claim that it's impossible to travel faster than light. I'm sure a "work-around" will be found at some point in our future, unless we manage to destroy ourselves before then. And maybe some other alien culture has found that work-around already. But if they have, there is no evidence that they've used it to visit us.

I would imagine if they have the technology to visit us then they could surely evade evidence capture. I personally believe they have been here all along and have made contact with world leaders.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Cal Goat]

No alien presence? How would a population too steeped in denial to know that it's own children were being raped by its priests, right under their noses, be sure of knowing anything about alien presence? Secrets are easy to keep in a population of people who brutally ridicule what they do not understand and fear.
.

Nevertheless, the burden of proof lies squarely on the conspiracy theorist's shoulders. To me, this is highly reminiscent of 9/11 conspiracies. Our inherent biases make it easy for us to believe something based on weak or no evidence and the testimony of people claiming to be eyewitnesses. UFO theories are harmless compared to your examples (which are terrible analogies for this topic, but do well to further your apparent agenda of paranoia and conspiracy) but do more damage to our collective reasoning and regard for facts as more and more people continue give this silliness widespread acceptance.

I grew up believing a lot of things, but education and life experience made those beliefs irreconcilable with facts that could not be ignored. What I see in all of these theories is the necessity to validate the story by any means possible by the theorists, which is exactly what I used to do myself. A healthy dose of skepticism will save you a lot of wasted energy.

 

[Maurus]

Maybe they don't care. We don't try and communicate with all the species on earth. As some have said, people claim to have met aliens face to face and received dialogue usually through a form of telepathy, most are laughed off.

There isn't any evidence to show they were abducted. Hence the reason they were laughed off. If they wanted to communicate it would have been done already.

No it wasn't, it was another team saying they don't think it was true but they couldn't positively show that. We are continuing to delve depper and deeper into physics, I believe we have barely scratched the surface.

It was debunked.

 

[Cal Goat]

Your argument is weak, and you are talking in circles.

I would say that it is your argument that is weak because you offer no counterpoint at all.

It's not impossible to keep elaborate secrets. I'm sure there are plenty of "elaborate secrets" that we, the general public, do not know about. I don't know where YOU draw the line between "elaborate secrets" which are impossible to keep, and "not-so-elaborate" secrets which are, in fact, kept.

"I'm sure there are plenty of "elaborate secrets" that we, the general public, do not know about."???

That, sir, barely even qualifies as an argument.

Actually, that has happened, many times. Do some research.

No examples? No citation or source for the research that supports your point? This isn't even high school level debate.

Your final argument here is based on the Wikileaks guy? You are assuming that every person who wants to come forward with secret information, about E.T.'s or anything else, is going to go through him? One guy, who has had the Wikileaks website since only 2006, is now the keeper of all the world's secrets? I don't think so.

That you have come to this point to criticize someone else's argument is hysterical. I'm not trying to pick on you, but this post was so obtuse that I had to call it out. Come on man, try harder.