UFO over Hilo

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I definitely lean more to the skeptical side. However, whether there's other life or not, I've always thought these things were interesting, mainly pilot/military accounts when they have credibility and have audio from the actual event. I saw this recently and it kind of stuck with me, didn't look into the backstory all though. It sounds real to me, not overly dramatized, although I'm not familiar at all with military radio talk etc... Anyway:



This is actually an interesting case, but research in the years hence has turned up a lot of evidence that indicates the original reports and theories were way off the mark. The most recent interviews even indicate that the most mysterious part of the report (the "chase") was quite possibly one of the Air Force pilots chasing the others, both of them thinking that they were investigating the same UFO. It's also important to note that today, all of the pilots involved believe that there was nothing more mysterious that night than radar anomalies, meteors (that night was the Perseid shower), and the planet Mars. Definitely an interesting and compelling case, but the evidence seems to indicate now that it was not a genuine UFO.
 
The only reason that I can think of for ETs coming here is mainly scientific. Scientists travel to all corners of the world, employing whichever resources that they have available to them so that they can meet their goals and learn as much as they can about what they study. I would like to believe that aliens would be interested in exploring other inhabited worlds like we do if they have developed "sufficient" intelligence. Heck, humans have already set foot upon an other world, a fact which makes us aliens too! Why then shouldn't this also apply to other intelligence species?

As for the lightspeed limitation, I refuse to believe that there isn't any other way of achieving interstellar travel. While we don't yet know of any way of traveling faster than the speed of light, we DO however know of one way of circumventing it: wormholes. And who knows, there may be other ways of getting around it which we will not come to understand until centuries or millenia have passed (assuming that we do not wipe ourselves out due to nuclear warfare and so forth). At one time no one thought that humans would be able to fly, or go faster than the speed of sound or go to the moon. Yet somehow we have because we were always willing to learn HOW to do it, and we had the goals and determination to do it. Now consider that the universe has existed for roughly 14 billion years. If there were a spacefaring species that had existed for 2 billion years, let's say, what would its technology be able to achieve? The sky is virtually the limit, and one thing that I don't like about the UFO/ET topic is that everyone is making up assumptions but the truth is fully that we are dealing with the unknown.

That said, I have to admit I can hardly care less whether aliens are studying us or. They could be invisible in our backyards 24/7 since the dawn of recorded history, but the fact remains that mankind will still be confronted with the same problems that it had "yesterday."
 
There are a few good UFO cases out there like Rendelsham Forest and so forth that have yet to be explained.
Really?
RENDLESHAM - UFO HOAX June 2003

For over twenty years the story of the Rendlesham Forest UFOs in Suffolk has gathered momentum. But the incident has never been properly explained, until now…

The alleged UFO sighting has become one of the world's most talked about extra-terrestrial encounters.

Not only can we tell you that most of it was a hoax but also how it was done.

Sighting

During the nights of December 26 and 27 1980, American servicemen stationed at RAF Woodbridge and Bentwaters in Suffolk reported mysterious lights in nearby Rendlesham Forest.

A team of airmen, including Deputy Base Commander Lieutenant Colonel Halt, left the base to investigate. Halt gave a running commentary into a dictaphone.

They were armed with an image intensifier and a tape recorder but were unable to identify the source.
The men chased a varied assortment of lights, described as 'weird phenomena.'
They claimed that they had encountered an alien craft, which they established a landing site for.
Following the incident, the men filed top secret witness reports, which were strictly classified.

However, copies of the tape-recording were leaked and the incident attracted attention.

Confession

One interesting utterance that a puzzled Halt gives on the tape recording is, "The red, white and blue lights of the UFO are still hovering over Woodbridge."

But former USAF Security Policemen, Kevin Conde, has exclusively revealed that these lights were the result of a practical joke he played on the gullible airman.

Conde says, "I drove my patrol car out of sight from the gatehouse, turned on the red and blue emergency lights and pointed white flashlights through the mist into the air."

"The bottom line is that, that was not a UFO it was a 1979 Plymouth Volare!" explains a bemused Conde.

Witness reports

James Easton, a writer specialising in UFO phenomena, recently stumbled across the eyewitness reports, hidden in a released US government file.

Easton says that they make breathtaking reading. Each individual account conflicts with the other. But most damning of all is the admission that the men knew they were 'chasing lighthouse beams' from the Orford Ness lighthouse.

One of Halt's men says he touched an alien craft. Another states nothing happened at all.
Halt maintains a light out at sea is a UFO. Easton says he has identified that light as coming from the Shipwash Buoy, which is now out of service.

Judgement questioned

By the end of 1980, the Suffolk bases were on high alert as US relations with soviet Russia worsened.

Conde has questioned the airmen's conduct at this crucial time.

Conde says, "If they're out in the forest seeing red and blue pulsing lights and I'm back here doing this prank with red and blue pulsing lights, what else do they think they're seeing?"

"You have to call into question the judgement of military officers, in charge of a front line base in the Cold War, who can't distinguish a UFO from a bank of police car lights."

One thing is certain, Conde's confession 23 years on completely turns the alleged Rendlesham UFO encounter on its head.
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As for the lightspeed limitation, I refuse to believe that there isn't any other way of achieving interstellar travel. While we don't yet know of any way of traveling faster than the speed of light, we DO however know of one way of circumventing it: wormholes. And who knows, there may be other ways of getting around it which we will not come to understand until centuries or millenia have passed (assuming that we do not wipe ourselves out due to nuclear warfare and so forth). At one time no one thought that humans would be able to fly, or go faster than the speed of sound or go to the moon. Yet somehow we have because we were always willing to learn HOW to do it, and we had the goals and determination to do it. Now consider that the universe has existed for roughly 14 billion years. If there were a spacefaring species that had existed for 2 billion years, let's say, what would its technology be able to achieve? The sky is virtually the limit, and one thing that I don't like about the UFO/ET topic is that everyone is making up assumptions but the truth is fully that we are dealing with the unknown.
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No offense, but the fact that you refuse to believe something doesn't make it any less valid. There are thousands of Physicists who know an infinite amount more on this subject than you, that would love to disagree with you. You don't possess the knowledge necessary to make a determination of what is possible or what isn't in this case.

You say that we are dealing with the unknown, which is true to some extent, but there are certain things that we do know. Number one, it is imposssible to exceed the speed of light. Read that again. It is NOT possible. It doesn't matter how advanced a civilization is, you cannot operate outside of the physical laws which govern the universe in which we live. Period.

Secondly, we don't KNOW that wormholes are a valid way of circunavigating the speed of light. I don't know where you pulled that information from. Wormholes are theoretically possible per general relativity, however no observational evidence has ever been obtained to support their existence. Even if there was, this would be no guarantee that they could be successfully utilized for long distance travel.

I suggest you read the Wikipedia article concerning wormholes. It's quite interesting, very well written, and you may learn something if you don't mind sifting through some pretty technical explanations.
 
There are thousands of Physicists who know an infinite amount more on this subject than you, that would love to disagree with you. You don't possess the knowledge necessary to make a determination of what is possible or what isn't in this case.
There was also a point in time where scientists believed we could transmute lead into gold and that the world is flat. I would ascertain that our knowledge is not so substantially firm as you claim it to be.
 
Snipped for Brevity
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And who exactly is Kevin Conde, who many years after the fact had long since concluded, suddenly pops up to inform us all that it was all simply patrol-lights? The lighthouse theory never made much sense to me, given that those guys were stationed at the base for some time. One would think that they know what the lighthouse looks like, and would have realized that it was just something mundane. Worse yet, I'm pretty sure that I recall the owner of the lighthouse saying that it was inoperative on the night of the "event."

Besides, didn't a team go out to the site the next day with a geiger coutner only to find that the ground there was impressed with three track markings? As I recall, it was laden with a high level of radioactivity which could not have been caused by anything within the natural environment.

I can't honestly say what they saw, or how truthful any of them are being to us now, but from what l've read about it, it seemed as if something touched down there. I have an other idea though which harks back to the time of the Cold War. We know today that the base housed a considerable nuclear arsenal for part of the defense of Europe against the USSR. I reckon that the Soviets knew about it too, despite it being hidden knowledge from the public back then. I could definitely see the Soviets going on a reconnaissance mission with some kind of spy craft, and maybe said type of craft was powered by a nuclear reactor (which might explain the radioactivity readings).
 
There was also a point in time where scientists believed we could transmute lead into gold and that the world is flat. I would ascertain that our knowledge is not so substantially firm as you claim it to be.

Our knowledge isn't close to being complete, no. However, I think we know enough to rule out certain events and phenomena as being impossible. Many scientific theories which were postulated centuries ago, still hold up today. There is a point when we have enough knowledge to

I do think it is ridiculous that so many people think they have a better grasp on scientific principles than those who dedicate their lives to studying it.
 
ufo.jpg


At the end it was not a great mystery................:rolleyes:
Now if someone offered this as a kit I would build it as an Experimental.........
 
Wasn't the sound barrier at one point believed to be a true barrier, that we could not go through?

I'm sure it was, however there are certain limitations to the physical universe, and it IS possible to make determinations on the impossiblity or possibility of an event occurring without knowing everything there is to know.

There are certain physical laws (like Isaac Newton's) which were postulated hundreds of years ago, made with even less knowledge than we have now, that still hold up based on empirical observation.

If you were theoretically to work out the math for an object travelling faster than the speed of light, you would get a negative number for time. Essentially an object travelling faster than c would arrive at it's destination before it ever departed. This is not possible.

Some things just aren't possible. Sorry if that disappoints you, but it is the truth.
 
Some things just aren't possible. Sorry if that disappoints you, but it is the truth.

I do wonder if some things just aren't possible here, in our universe. If that in some other universe elsewhere, do our rules/laws of what is possible, truly apply? Its an interesting question at the least. One to which I have no answer.
 
No offense, but the fact that you refuse to believe something doesn't make it any less valid. There are thousands of Physicists who know an infinite amount more on this subject than you, that would love to disagree with you. You don't possess the knowledge necessary to make a determination of what is possible or what isn't in this case.

Let me be absolutely clear on this: I am not a physicist, and I'm not even worthy enough to hold a candle up to any of them when it comes to physics. All that I'm saying is that we don't know everything about the universe or interstellar travel for that matter to conclude what is, or rather, what will not be possible in the future.

You say that we are dealing with the unknown, which is true to some extent, but there are certain things that we do know. Number one, it is imposssible to exceed the speed of light. Read that again. It is NOT possible. It doesn't matter how advanced a civilization is, you cannot operate outside of the physical laws which govern the universe in which we live. Period.

And can you actually state it for a fact that there may not be possible solutions in the future which will allow an object to cheat around this limitation, like warping space and time itself? In SPITE of physicists having already put some effort to see whether it's impossible or not? NOTE: I am not saying that it is possible to go faster than the speed of light. Only that one day there may be a way of circumventing it by employing a cheat. Considering that there are physicists working on said problem right now, they likely agree with me.

Secondly, we don't KNOW that wormholes are a valid way of circunavigating the speed of light. I don't know where you pulled that information from. Wormholes are theoretically possible per general relativity, however no observational evidence has ever been obtained to support their existence. Even if there was, this would be no guarantee that they could be successfully utilized for long distance travel.

Just from watching documentaries over the years. So, yes, we don't know whether it's truly possible or not. But the jury isn't entirely out on that yet, which is what I'm trying to impress upon you. It's just one possible PROPOSED cheat for circumventing the speed of light. But can anyone say that is viable? Definitely not.

I suggest you read the Wikipedia article concerning wormholes. It's quite interesting, very well written, and you may learn something if you don't mind sifting through some pretty technical explanations.

I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia when it comes to physics. Anyone can modify its content and put whatever they want in there. I wouldn't mind though time permitting, to read an actual book dedicated to the subject.
 
I do wonder if some things just aren't possible here, in our universe. If that in some other universe elsewhere, do our rules/laws of what is possible, truly apply? Its an interesting question at the least. One to which I have no answer.

Well, I definitely agree with you there Mike. There may very well be a large amount (possibly infinite?) of other universes where the physical laws are completely different. It's mind boggling to think about.
 
And can you actually state it for a fact that there may not be possible solutions in the future which will allow an object to cheat around this limitation, like warping space and time itself? In SPITE of physicists having already put some effort to see whether it's impossible or not? NOTE: I am not saying that it is possible to go faster than the speed of light. Only that one day there may be a way of circumventing it by employing a cheat. Considering that there are physicists working on said problem right now, they likely agree with me.


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Well, we are in agreement as far as this is concerned, because I agree with you here. Take the wormhole for example. It's basically a shortcut through spacetime. Technically you can get from one side to the other, travelling a shorter distance, than it would take light to "go-around" the wormhole.

So in a way, you are travelling "faster-than-light", even though locally you really aren't.
 
I'm sure it was, however there are certain limitations to the physical universe, and it IS possible to make determinations on the impossiblity or possibility of an event occurring without knowing everything there is to know.

There are certain physical laws (like Isaac Newton's) which were postulated hundreds of years ago, made with even less knowledge than we have now, that still hold up based on empirical observation.

If you were theoretically to work out the math for an object travelling faster than the speed of light, you would get a negative number for time. Essentially an object travelling faster than c would arrive at it's destination before it ever departed. This is not possible.

Some things just aren't possible. Sorry if that disappoints you, but it is the truth.

It doesn't disappoint me one bit.

We as humans are incredibly arrogant in many ways, see my first comment in this thread. We know what we know until what we know is wrong, then we really know. Until we don't again of course.
 
Apophis, you're talking as if warp drive can't exist. Not only can it exist, but there have been recent breakthroughs in the equations indicating that it could be done with far less (albeit still an enormous amount) of energy required. Nobody is disputing Einstein that a ship can fly faster than the speed of light - instead this is a complete workaround. Einstein never said you can't contract space time on one side of you ship, expand it on the other and warp it around yourself so that your frame of reference remains stationary.

This may seem insane, but the fact that NASA physicists are actually entertaining the idea is to me very exciting. Maybe Star Trek was right all along? ;)

What if NASA could figure out the math of a workable warp drive?
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...out-the-math-of-a-workable-warp-drive/265655/
 
Star Trek and Gene Roddenberry ideas have become realities in many everyday things which were thought to be "far out" when they were first introduced as science fiction.
 
Star Trek and Gene Roddenberry ideas have become realities in many everyday things which were thought to be "far out" when they were first introduced as science fiction.

Automatic Sliding Doors =/= Warp Drive Technology

But in all seriousness the fact that scientists are actually looking into the feasibilities of such a things is significant IMO.
 
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