UAL ALPA sticks it to the man

H46Bubba said:
Time to take it back!:yar: :bandit:
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This phrase keeps going around. "Time to take it back", "taking it back", and so forth. I am a little skeptic that the wages will ever return. Now that airline mgmt has seen their pilots will work for 40-60% less, I highly doubt they are ever going to, in the generous hearts, give their pilots a 50% raise.
 
meritflyer said:
This phrase keeps going around. "Time to take it back", "taking it back", and so forth. I am a little skeptic that the wages will ever return. Now that airline mgmt has seen their pilots will work for 40-60% less, I highly doubt they are ever going to, in the generous hearts, give their pilots a 50% raise.
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It is "time to take it back". It is up to the pilots to fight for what we believe in. Don't be skeptical, fight for what is right and we as professional pilots deserve! Management shouldn't 'give' us anything. We will fight for what we are owed.
 
Seggy said:
It is "time to take it back". It is up to the pilots to fight for what we believe in. Don't be skeptical, fight for what is right and we as professional pilots deserve! Management shouldn't 'give' us anything. We will fight for what we are owed.
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People need to put a price on what their services are worth. Like said though, I just have a difficult time thinking mgmt will return wages to years prior. For every pro pilot's sake though, it'd be a great victory should it occur.
 
meritflyer said:
People need to put a price on what their services are worth. Like said though, I just have a difficult time thinking mgmt will return wages to years prior. For every pro pilot's sake though, it'd be a great victory should it occur.
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Management doesn't "return" wages.

Remember, we're a cost. So any increase in compensation (increase in labor cost if you're mgmt) is going to present a struggle.

Personally, I'm ready to whip some ace. But we've all got to be on the same page else some doofus will once again say, 'Dude! Give ME the jets, I'll do it for less! I just love flying' and the spiral continues.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Management doesn't "return" wages.

Remember, we're a cost. So any increase in compensation (increase in labor cost if you're mgmt) is going to present a struggle.

Personally, I'm ready to whip some ace. But we've all got to be on the same page else some doofus will once again say, 'Dude! Give ME the jets, I'll do it for less! I just love flying' and the spiral continues.
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Yeah, "return" was a bad description.

But I think you get what I am saying.

It'd be nice to see EVERY US pilot walk off the job for a day (or week) and say "this is what we're worth. Pay it or find new pilots."
 
meritflyer said:
Yeah, "return" was a bad description.

But I think you get what I am saying.

It'd be nice to see EVERY US pilot walk off the job for a day (or week) and say "this is what we're worth. Pay it or find new pilots."
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You don't get what your "worth" by walking of the job. You get it by not walking on the job in the first place.
 
skydog said:
You don't get what your "worth" by walking off the job. You get it by not walking on the job in the first place.
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In the case of the airlines, your philosophy doesnt work. Most of the guys that have been crapped on were there when it was a better job. Now, they take 40-60% paycuts, lose pensions, and see a decrease in work rules.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Personally, I'm ready to whip some ace. But we've all got to be on the same page else some doofus will once again say, 'Dude! Give ME the jets, I'll do it for less! I just love flying' and the spiral continues.
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So maybe ALPA needs to take dude out back and work him over a little bit until he sees the light.

:sarcasm:










sort of
 
So why, when they reworked the contract after 9/11 so that the airlines can be saved, did the labor groups not put something in there saying that the wages will return to where they were once the airline is saved?

Another thing I found interesting, I just read today that more than half of United's flights out of DEN are on regional jets.
 
meritflyer said:
In the case of the airlines, your philosophy doesnt work. Most of the guys that have been crapped on were there when it was a better job. Now, they take 40-60% paycuts, lose pensions, and see a decrease in work rules.
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It's not my philosphy, it's economic reality. The moment any person accepts a job for any salary, he defines his worth in the market place. A person who stays on the job after the drastic changes you mentioned continues to define his worth in the marketplace.

You're seeing that economic reality at work the regional level. People are deciding they are worth more than 18-24K a year, hence the regionals having difficulty filling slots.
 
skydog said:
It's not my philosphy, it's economic reality. The moment any person accepts a job for any salary, he defines his worth in the market place. A person who stays on the job after the drastic changes you mentioned continues to define his worth in the marketplace.

You're seeing that economic reality at work the regional level. People are deciding they are worth more than 18-24K a year, hence the regionals having difficulty filling slots.
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:yeahthat:

When people start leaving a job in droves, if you're management, you gotta ask yourself why.

And then you gotta ask yourself if you care.

Obviously, the answer at some airlines is not just no, but hell no. As long as they can keep on bringing in starry eyed new pilots who are sporting wood just to have the title "airline pilot" they're gonna keep the pay low.
 
tonyw said:
When people start leaving a job in droves, if you're management, you gotta ask yourself why.

And then you gotta ask yourself if you care.

Obviously, the answer at some airlines is not just no, but hell no. As long as they can keep on bringing in starry eyed new pilots who are sporting wood just to have the title "airline pilot" they're gonna keep the pay low.
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I agree with you both as a matter of basic economics. Where I see the airlines a little differently is the pilots who've been there for for 10-20+ years. Their financial livelihood was [is] dependant on the career they've established flying. Not exaclty something you can just walk away from. Especially with a home and family.
 
"As long as they can keep on bringing in starry eyed new pilots who are sporting wood just to have the title "airline pilot"

And as long as there are places like Jet U and Gulfstream with big ads in Flying Magazine touting the career, there will be no shortage of people to fill in at the bottom.
 
DE727UPS said:
And as long as there are places like Jet U and Gulfstream with big ads in Flying Magazine touting the career, there will be no shortage of people to fill in at the bottom.
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With minimums at the regionals as low as they are I can't imagine why anyone would decide to go for those options anyway. How can Gulfstream compete with 250-400TT minimums!
 
Timbuff10 said:
So why, when they reworked the contract after 9/11 so that the airlines can be saved, did the labor groups not put something in there saying that the wages will return to where they were once the airline is saved?

Another thing I found interesting, I just read today that more than half of United's flights out of DEN are on regional jets.
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Whats the point of that. So the airline can go right back bankrupt.

UAL and DAL ALPA where in a wage war at the time. They both went back and forth with pay increases trying to top each other and things got out of hand.
 
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