Type rating advice needed

Autothrust Blue said:
That's not what she said, but I know. Supply and demand has a lot MORE to do with the equation. The old man bought a Gulfstream IV type rating some years ago when Delta was in the throes of bankruptcy and flew corporate for a bit; the type rating was financed with a HELOC. It was paid off, but the cost was fairly staggering.

Other than DC-3, that's the only type rating I'd fork over for, is my point.
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Exhibit 345-A why I can't wait to get out of this segment of the industry.
 
mikecweb said:
Exhibit 345-A why I can't wait to get out of this segment of the industry.
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Training paid for at the airlines: zero dollars and zero cents. Thus far includes an SIC course and full PIC/ATP course.

It worked out, and he made all the money back - and then some. But it doesn't always, and it's always seemed downright cheap to me.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Training paid for at the airlines: zero dollars and zero cents. Thus far includes an SIC course and full PIC/ATP course.

It worked out, and he made all the money back - and then some. But it doesn't always, and it's always seemed downright cheap to me.
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My point is someone can just take out a loan and buy my job away from me.
Can't do that anywhere other than corporate.
 
There are a couple places that do Citation types in the actual jet. I dont remember their names off hand, but if you're going to blow money on a type just for fun, I'd sure as heck rather do it in the actual jet and get a few hours of time than fly a box. Also, since you do it in the real jet there is no IOE restrictions. I still doubt it'd be anymore useful than if you found someone to pay for it... but if your heart is set on doing it as a bucket list thing, that's what I would do.
 
Skier22 said:
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. Great forum. As for the Citabria advise....learned in one 38 years ago, 300+ tail dragger hours, performed every basic aerobatic maneuver before I had 100 hours. As far as being bored in between t/o and landings, I've been there in singles flying 3-4 hour legs below 10K to ND, MI, FL and Freeport in the Bahamas all from metro Boston. So, while I understand that some of you guys find it perplexing, I still have the desire to learn about and fly small jets. I just need to find the best way to go about it. All the feedback is greatly appreciated.
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If you just want your S's and giggles with flying a jet, go do the 737 course (I believe) the guy's name is Wayne Phillips. Runs a good program, and for a few hundred bucks, you get to fly a sim and go through a short course on the 737. It'll save you a ton of money, and you get to "experience" a jet.

Edit to add: http://b737.com/
 
Skier22 said:
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. Great forum. As for the Citabria advise....learned in one 38 years ago, 300+ tail dragger hours, performed every basic aerobatic maneuver before I had 100 hours. As far as being bored in between t/o and landings, I've been there in singles flying 3-4 hour legs below 10K to ND, MI, FL and Freeport in the Bahamas all from metro Boston. So, while I understand that some of you guys find it perplexing, I still have the desire to learn about and fly small jets. I just need to find the best way to go about it. All the feedback is greatly appreciated.
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Well since you asked:

1. Be a profesional. You are a 2500 hr flight instructor. You have value, value costs money. You need to start this by valuing your time. Think of what you love to do outside of aviation and put a value on that and charge that to the operator. Set a day rate 300 dollars a day or so. Work hard to show your value. Know the numbers, have fuel burns and emergency plans worked out and dress like a profesional. At the corporate level a polo shirt and kakis. Show up on time. Help out with light cleaning duties but don't mop the entire hangar floor.

2. Don't pay for training. If you are confident in your value and the operator needs a safe copilot you need training. Simple as that. Please don't pay for it.

3. Don't let your dreams override your profesional value. Yes jets seem very awesome from the outside. I've flown 135/91 jets mostly Cj and Cessna products since 2005. The job is 10% flying. The rest is sitting on standby, cleaning, arranging catering, etc. Yes you get the occasional sunrise in the flight levels etc but the reality is the job is mostly drudgery and airport hotels. I prefer mountain biking and flying jets is a JOB.

4. If you want to fly jets for fun find an L39 operator and pay for training and a type. Please don't lower the bar any further and pay for training and work for free on a corporate passenger jet. After 2 years of this you will burn out but the endless conveyor belt of guys willing to work for free will pick up the slack. No doubt when you ask for pay you will be kicked to the curb. Better to find this out early and ask for money and training to start.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
That's not what she said, but I know. Supply and demand has a lot MORE to do with the equation. The old man bought a Gulfstream IV type rating some years ago when Delta was in the throes of bankruptcy and flew corporate for a bit; the type rating was financed with a HELOC. It was paid off, but the cost was fairly staggering.

Other than DC-3, that's the only type rating I'd fork over for, is my point.
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Was he furloughed at the time?
 
we had a Leave Of Absence (which I took advantage of) and there was also something like what you speak of, but I was on LOA so I don't remember that.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
4. If you want to fly jets for fun find an L39 operator and pay for training and a type.
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I agree!!! May be that I'm slightly partial to the awesome Czech jet... and it is an awesome jet and a peach to fly. Unfortunately, I did have to pay for my Experimental Type Rating in the L-39. It officially cost me about $3k for the entire type to include the 'training' and check ride. My situation was definitely a little different (I just paid for fuel for my training/check ride) Did it pay off? YES... I'd like to think so...

It's a really great jet and very easy to fly/understand. Well.... mostly. It's not quite as simple as the Citation series, but if you respect the lack of power/slow spool times... and the fact it has only one vodka burner. And if you are comfortable thinking in Russian, I say go for it. If you aren't used to pulling Gs, definitely ease into it. While the L-39 is not an.....F-16, it can make even some fit young dudes G-LOC. With enough smash, she'll give you every thing she's got. I've seen 9Gs in the L-39 (I didn't over-G it:cool:), 8 is the structural limit.

It is very much a single pilot jet. The approach speeds are sometimes greater than the 172s best forward speed.
 
If you want a type rating on the cheap, in a turbine, in the flight levels? Do it in a glider. You'll have a turbine type. It will be above FL200, and way way way more fun. And costs about $1,500. New Mexico is nice this time of year....
 
Skier22 said:
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. Great forum. As for the Citabria advise....learned in one 38 years ago, 300+ tail dragger hours, performed every basic aerobatic maneuver before I had 100 hours. As far as being bored in between t/o and landings, I've been there in singles flying 3-4 hour legs below 10K to ND, MI, FL and Freeport in the Bahamas all from metro Boston. So, while I understand that some of you guys find it perplexing, I still have the desire to learn about and fly small jets. I just need to find the best way to go about it. All the feedback is greatly appreciated.
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PM sent.
 
Skier22 said:
Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. Great forum. As for the Citabria advise....learned in one 38 years ago, 300+ tail dragger hours, performed every basic aerobatic maneuver before I had 100 hours.
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Hey, me too!! Just in my case it wasn't intentional.
 
I wish basic aerobatics or at least upset attitude training was a required part of a commercial single-engine rating. I fly with so many pilots who are terrified of a simple spin or aileron roll. It's like they think once the plane goes past 60 degrees they are going to die. But I digress...

To the OP, I know a Leer operator who would throw you on a flight or two and pay you a day rate. He gave me my first taste of a jet with only 20 hours turbine time.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I wish basic aerobatics or at least upset attitude training was a required part of a commercial single-engine rating. I fly with so many pilots who are terrified of a simple spin or aileron roll. It's like they think once the plane goes past 60 degrees they are going to die. But I digress...
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I'll freely admit I had some trepidation when I spun an airplane (under supervision) for the first time.

Fear of the unknown, while usually unjustified, seems somewhat rational.
 
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