TSA - Is anyone bothered/suprised ?

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How could we possibly have customer service issues in this industry? The employees love and respect the customers so much!

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Flyover, the average American thinks we've found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The average American thinks Saddam Hussein was linked to September 11. The average American carries about $10K in credit card debt on an income of about $22K. These are not intelligent things.

The average American does really stupid things. And always has. How long ago was it when H.L. Mencken said nobody goes broke underestimating the stupidty of the American public?

Every day, I see things that make me more and more sure that we will see Planet of the Apes.

By the way, I do agree with you on profiling. Real profiling, not just, hey, let's screen all the Arabs. That's easily defeated profiling. There are Pakistanis (who aren't even Arab, by the way) who have light skin and green eyes. And don't forget, we stopped ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Kosovo.

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Racial profiling is wrong. Searching people because they are of middle eastern descent or because they "look like terrorists" will not only do nothing to make us safer, but it's also unconstitutional. What does a terrorist look like anyway? The Oklahoma City bombers, Eric Rudolph, and John Walker (Taliban fighter) were all white American men.

I say screen everybody thouroughly and we won't have to worry about attacks.
 
Oh, the "not a requirement" thing? Well, in some airports it is, some it isn't. In some airports, you can walk through in your Wal-Mart sneakers that have 1/2 " soles. However, when you fly back home, you'll probably have to take those same shoes off since "oh, it's a requirement now." Like Emily said, standardization would be good.

Now, as for the average airline customer....

I'm speaking as someone who had face-to-face contact (other than "Thanks for flying with us, buh bye. Buh Bye.") with average customers on a day to day basis. They still think flying is like riding the bus. Security is a pain they feel they shouldn't go through since they didn't bomb the WTC. Those that travel often have the system down and know how it works. They aren't the average customer. If they were, the airlines would be in better financial condition. Average customers are the ones generally going on a vacation with a heavily restricted, discount fare. These are the guys that show up 20 minutes prior to departure and wonder why they can't sit together or get a window seat. They also want to know why we charge them extra for bringing four bags instead of two. They walk around the airport slack-jawed and wondering why people aren't bowing to them since they paid their $79. Now, I'll be the first to say that every customer should be treated well no matter what they paid. BUT, when you get in my face and complain about how much the flight cost and want to know why we wouldn't hold the flight because you either wanted to sleep later or couldn't find a closer parking spot, then you go down in the "bad" column in my book. If people would just read the stuff given to them when they buy their ticket or read the signs as they approach security, things would be much, much better. They don't, and that's where the "average airline passenger" falls short. They don't take any responsibility on the part, and the answer is always "Well, no one told ME!" Truth is, it was either printed under "restrictions" on your ticket (which are in plain English now, not some archaic code) or you saw the sign and ignored it. I had one lady literally yell and scream at me because she showed up a day late and had to buy another ticket. She said it was my airline's fault because she swore she clicked Friday on the website, but we booked her for Thursday.

I agree that customer service needs to be improved at airlines, however it's a two way street.
 
I got it Tony. I know that what you really want to say is Americans are stupid for electing Bush, a "simpleton" as Aloft would say, over the ever so intelligent Kerry. And I'm stupid for thinking that Islamic terrorism is uniquely dangerous to aviation when the 6 airliners they've recently brought down are sure to be the last.

That's fine. That I understand. What I don't get on this forum is the contempt for the customers. I appreciated all my customers over the years but the ones I enjoyed the most were the "Aunt Bessies" and all the others who were a little in awe of flying and a little overwhelmed by it all. It gave me a chance to interact with them and help them on their way. I enjoyed collecting up the lost people as I walked through the terminal and sending them in the right direction. The idea that it's up to the customers to change their habits for us is a recipe for poor service. It's up to us to figure out how to accomodate big belt buckle wearers, not the other way around.

Some of the credit card debt is for vacation and air travel. It's may not be the smartest thing in the world. But calling them all "stupid" may not be that bright in and of itself. Just like the Democrats aren't going to come back to majority status by calling people stupid or evil, the airlines aren't going to get a service reputation when their employees think the customers are stupid. You just can't serve someone you have comtempt for.

Over nearly 30 years in this business I've seen customer service people who were true professionals. They could turn any bad situation into gold. On the other hand I've seen agents who were always involved in altercations with customers. They could turn a minor problem into sh*t. And one difference was always noticable. The guys that always had problems spent their break times complaining about how screwed up the customers were. The others who could always resolve problems never said a bad word about them. If you tried to criticize their customer later, they would defend them. I think it's that difference in philosophy alone that made them so good at their jobs.

Of all the "solutions" I've seen to industry woes, blaming the customer is the furtherest from any truth. The idea that if we just hammer the customers enough, weed out the "stupid" ones to make room for the "smart" ones everything will be peachy is just wrong imo. The airlines simply can't survive by only serving Kerry voters.
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Racial profiling is wrong. Searching people because they are of middle eastern descent or because they "look like terrorists" will not only do nothing to make us safer, but it's also unconstitutional.

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I don't know of anybody who is talking about "racial profiling". In fact the airlines are falling all over themselves to not do it. The profiling that is needed is intelligence based and behavior based. In other words most of it is done before anybody lays an eye on anyone. After that how the person acts is examined. There is no way that the current TSA personnel can do it. It has to be done by the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA and the airlines working together. And this has worked in the past.
 
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Racial profiling is wrong. Searching people because they are of middle eastern descent or because they "look like terrorists" will not only do nothing to make us safer, but it's also unconstitutional.

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I don't know of anybody who is talking about "racial profiling". In fact the airlines are falling all over themselves to not do it. The profiling that is needed is intelligence based and behavior based. In other words most of it is done before anybody lays an eye on anyone. After that how the person acts is examined. There is no way that the current TSA personnel can do it. It has to be done by the FBI, Homeland Security, CIA and the airlines working together. And this has worked in the past.

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I misunderstood your original post. You're talking about real profiling, the kind that law enforcement sometimes uses to catch criminals and solve crimes. That sounds like something that would be effective, as long as whoever is doing the screening doesn't let their own personal feelings get in the way.
 
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I misunderstood your original post. You're talking about real profiling, the kind that law enforcement sometimes uses to catch criminals and solve crimes. That sounds like something that would be effective, as long as whoever is doing the screening doesn't let their own personal feelings get in the way.

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I'm sure someone will come on, and rightfully so, say there is no way to divorce prejudices from this. I agree. But it's important to try, while not getting so overly sensitive that you can't be effective. We (Western civilization) are not the fascist racists in this war and they see tolerance as a weakness to be exploited.
 
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over the ever so intelligent Kerry.

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Actually, I personally thought that the portrayal of Kerry as a giant • on South Park was highly accurate.

But let's go beyond political things. Ever see Jaywalking on the Tonight Show? It's completely apolitical but the people he interviews are just so freaking idiotic you wonder how they get out of bed in the morning and manage to tie their shoes!

Anyway, real profiling would be fine by me, but the kind of profiling that people seem to be advocating (you know, the Ann Coulter kill all their leaders and convert their women and children to Christianity kind) ain't gonna work.

They're smart. If they say, hey, the infidels are screening all dark skinned people, what are they going to do? Hell, man, they almost got an Irish (I think) woman who was carrying a jihadist's child to unknowingly take a bomb on board with her.

They'll find a Kosovan Muslim to do their dirty work. Or an ex-Stasi agent who hates the US. Or a John Walker Lindh or Tim McVeigh. Or an Indonesian guy.

If you say, man, you're sensitive to racial profiling, you bet I am. It's because the last time we did it, people who look a lot like me ended up in American concentration camps.
 
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If you say, man, you're sensitive to racial profiling, you bet I am. It's because the last time we did it, people who look a lot like me ended up in American concentration camps.

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Absolutely, that's why we're tripping all over ourselves to not do that this time. I think we've done a good job. In the Netherlands, after one guy was killed by an Islamic nut there were violent racial incidents all over that little country including 47 attacks on mosques. I think by comparison we are doing well as a country and as people. I also think that what is coming in Europe in the next few years is going to really make us look good.

Coulter obviously was pointing out the absurd philosophy of the Islamo-fascists who are waging a very bloody religious war to establish Islamic tyranny. We need to not get our panties in a wad when it's pointed out with a little satirical wit. Watch Whoopi Goldberg or Bill Maher for goodness sake. It's a hoot when they do it.

I'm not going to call the people on Jaywalking geniuses. I blame two factors for that, first they are in Hollywood and secondly these are all products of an education system that hasn't taught history for decades now. If they step foot on my airplane and contribute to the feeding of my family, the word "stupid" is not going to go through my mind. I know a lot of politcally uniformed people or people I disagree with. But hard working people who do no harm to others and try to raise good kids are pretty smart people in my book. I've learned most of the important things in life from people who would not begin to know how to get through airport security smoothly.
 
Yes I am bothered! On a recent trip from South Africa to San Diego they opened up my suitcase without my knowledge. I am always willing to open up my luggage but nobody asked! However, they did put a note with professional letterhead telling me that they opened my luggage and it was for my safety! (Next time, "Ask First TSA!")
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People may not realize the significance of this discussion in respect to the anniversary of the OKC bombing. Any fresh-faced clean-cut Caucasian veterans have the department of homeland security breathe down their necks at Home Depot as they purchased lawn fertilizer?

I would assume people who advocate such profiling have probably never been the target of such scrutiny. As one who gets followed around and watched when I shop in certain establishments in certain regions of the country, it's absolutely degrading. I remember watching someone covertly monitor my shopping as a couple walked in, put some articles under their coat-draped arm and walk out.

The same thing will happen with our security.
 
Absolutely significant. And of course sales of fertilizer are now monitored, whether it's effective or not is another story.

The question seems to me to be are we going to take security measures against terrorism in general and Islamic terrorism in particular? There are two extremes. One is concentration camps for Muslims, simply unthinkable. The other is no measures at all preferring to just wait and hope. Also unthinkable it seems to me, given the stakes. So where is the middle ground?

You can kind of see the dilemma that authorities are in. They are damed if the do and damned if they don't. They don't have the resources to be everywhere so they ask flight schools and airlines to take some responsiblity and simply report suspicious activity. If the FBI had taken seriously reports they had gotten pre-9/11 there's a chance it might have been avoided. Now, since middle eastern Arabs are the most prominent face of Islamic terrorism that in itself triggers a degree of suspicion. Is a visit from a policeman followed by "have a nice day" too much to bear? I honestly don't know as it's definitely true I haven't walked in those shoes.

Meanwhile the threat continues and no politican of either stripe is going to suggest standing down. Great Britain currently has their risk assessment at it's highest level expecting an attempt to influence their elections ala Spain.
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They'll have to be on the alert and Muslims will undoubtedly be scrutinized. The Netherlands uncovered Islamic terrorist plots against national politicans that has some of them hiding in fear and has the neo-Nazis going nuts. The southern Phillipines is being called the next Afghanistan as far as terrorist training camps.

My point being that while we are laughing at the Keystone Cops here, world-wide things are plenty active and hot. We can't just hope things will be OK here. And while there's no way to know everything that is being done, it's an easy bet it's not enough, especially on the borders and in the harbors. Supposedly there is intelligence suggesting US bound international flights are possible targets. It's impossible to laugh it off as we simply don't know. It's one of those deals where it's easy to make fun if you don't bear the responsiblity.

Are innocent people going to suffer from this jihad? No doubt. Here in the US it's mostly bruised feelings. In other places they'll be paying a much higher price.
 
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. He verbally told them how they should "talk to him".

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I'm not sure I understand.

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He gave this man a hard time because he did not know to tell him he had a Pace Maker.
 
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Yes I am bothered! On a recent trip from South Africa to San Diego they opened up my suitcase without my knowledge. I am always willing to open up my luggage but nobody asked! However, they did put a note with professional letterhead telling me that they opened my luggage and it was for my safety! (Next time, "Ask First TSA!")
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That's legit, and per their policy. Happened to me a few times, no big deal. I do have a problem overseas though-some security folks at LHR apparently opened my suitcase a few years back, and helped themselves to a bottle of wine I bought in Italy. At least in the US they tell you what they did.
 
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Actually they did ask to search your luggage and you agreed that they could.

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SteveC's right. Remember my comment about people and signs?
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Flying home today from MIA to DTW, I had to take of my sandals. Yes, my sandals. I was not thrilled about walking on some icky floor barefoot, because I figured (wrongly) that it would be obvious I couldn't hide explosives in flipflops. *sigh*

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I was flying from XNA to BNA several months ago. I always arrive at the belt with everything possible off...(I usually don't wear anything that I know will set it off anyway). But, much to my dismay the sweater I was wearing was NOT setting off the metal detector; however, TSA thought it would be a good idea for me to take it off anyway. Normally I don't question these things...but I had to ask, "why?" Ok, the little thing i had on underneath the sweater was totally inappropriate for the public. After being hounded to death I ended up in the XNA airport with nothing more than my pants and something similar to a sports bra! Are you kidding me? Why would they have me do that if I did NOT set off the metal detector? Not to mention half of the US army was inline behind me....lovely. Sorry to rant about it. I am all for security...when it makes sense.
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After being hounded to death I ended up in the XNA airport with nothing more than my pants and something similar to a sports bra!

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And there you have your answer. That was the closest some of these TSA jokers get to actually being with a girl.

I'm only half joking. Have you seen some of them? They make Trekkies look like studs.
 
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After being hounded to death I ended up in the XNA airport with nothing more than my pants and something similar to a sports bra!

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And there you have your answer. That was the closest some of these TSA jokers get to actually being with a girl.

I'm only half joking. Have you seen some of them? They make Trekkies look like studs.

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thats pretty much what i was thinking too. how about those pants some of them wear...talk about painted on!
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ok, ok, i'm finished being nasty.
 
That reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's old routine about airport security.

Since I travel Non-rev pretty often, I generally get red flagged by security (the ticket usually comes up as one-way). I have to say MCO has the quickest most professional setup in the business. Myself and my baggage were searched in under 2 minutes. I was finished before the people waiting in the normal line. Suckers
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