TSA - Is anyone bothered/suprised ?
- Thread starter Malko
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Surprised? No. Bothered, yeah since apparently some people in DC still think this is a good idea:
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Screener performance won't be acceptable "until these people have state-of-the-art technology," he said.
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They can't handle the stuff they have now, and they want to spend more money on a flawed system in the hopes that it will fix the problem? Sadly, this guy isn't even a Republican. Mica (R) is the one saying it's no better than pre-9/11, and he's the chair of the House Aviation Committee. I'd like to see the stats from the 5 "control" airports. If they perform comparably to TSA, then I say nix the program and stop the burden on the taxpayers and the airlines. Still have DoHS perform checks to make sure security is up to standards, and perform training and oversight. The TSA experiment has failed, it's time for the governement to say "We screwed up" and move on.
[ QUOTE ]
Screener performance won't be acceptable "until these people have state-of-the-art technology," he said.
[/ QUOTE ]
They can't handle the stuff they have now, and they want to spend more money on a flawed system in the hopes that it will fix the problem? Sadly, this guy isn't even a Republican. Mica (R) is the one saying it's no better than pre-9/11, and he's the chair of the House Aviation Committee. I'd like to see the stats from the 5 "control" airports. If they perform comparably to TSA, then I say nix the program and stop the burden on the taxpayers and the airlines. Still have DoHS perform checks to make sure security is up to standards, and perform training and oversight. The TSA experiment has failed, it's time for the governement to say "We screwed up" and move on.
pscraig
Well-Known Member
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Screeners perform poorly
<admins please delete if this has already been posted.>
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While I support efforts to enhance airline safety, I agree the TSA hasn't made much difference except to make very long lines in the terminal and make passengers upset.
They also seem to be reactionary, designing their search and policies on what terrorists have already done or tried to do. I doubt they are looking ahead to the next threat, focusing on old news instead.
Bothered? A bit, but I am looking into the FFDO program.
Screeners perform poorly
<admins please delete if this has already been posted.>
[/ QUOTE ]
While I support efforts to enhance airline safety, I agree the TSA hasn't made much difference except to make very long lines in the terminal and make passengers upset.
They also seem to be reactionary, designing their search and policies on what terrorists have already done or tried to do. I doubt they are looking ahead to the next threat, focusing on old news instead.
Bothered? A bit, but I am looking into the FFDO program.
Well, they threw together a larger bureaucracy without actually asking users of the system.
But the long lines aren't all the TSA's fault. At least 50% of the problem lies with some of the passengers. I see more people walk up with humongo belt buckets, cellphones in pockets, pocket change, you name it.
Well, because of public outcry, they give those same people "a second shot" at passing thru the detector which creates backlogs.
It's really the equivalent of someone going to a grocery store. Waiting until the person in front of them checks out, taking out a few groceries out of the cart a few at a time and then complaining about how long the line became and how long it's taking to check out.
The general public does not arrive prepared for screening.
But the long lines aren't all the TSA's fault. At least 50% of the problem lies with some of the passengers. I see more people walk up with humongo belt buckets, cellphones in pockets, pocket change, you name it.
Well, because of public outcry, they give those same people "a second shot" at passing thru the detector which creates backlogs.
It's really the equivalent of someone going to a grocery store. Waiting until the person in front of them checks out, taking out a few groceries out of the cart a few at a time and then complaining about how long the line became and how long it's taking to check out.
The general public does not arrive prepared for screening.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Totally agree with Doug. So, I guess the question is what can be done to get the people to wise up? I know in MCO they have signs everywhere (like anyone in Orlando reads signs) and these nice plasma TVs over the line telling people what to do. About the only other thing that I could think of would be to play an audio spiel over and over, but no one in Orlando listens to audio spiels, either. Trust me, I got plenty of stories to back THAT one up.
That leaves TSA employees being pro-active. Instead of standing there talking about what you would do to Denzel Washington if he came through the line, maybe pay attention to the redneck with the 8" John Deere belt buckle. Tell him "Sir, you'll have to remove that. It will set off the screening equipment." However, do it BEFORE the guy gets to the conveyor belt. I've also seen TSA screeners give people not two,not three,but FOUR chances to go through before they say "Step over there, please." If you haven't found the offending metal on the second try, put 'em on the footprints.
That leaves TSA employees being pro-active. Instead of standing there talking about what you would do to Denzel Washington if he came through the line, maybe pay attention to the redneck with the 8" John Deere belt buckle. Tell him "Sir, you'll have to remove that. It will set off the screening equipment." However, do it BEFORE the guy gets to the conveyor belt. I've also seen TSA screeners give people not two,not three,but FOUR chances to go through before they say "Step over there, please." If you haven't found the offending metal on the second try, put 'em on the footprints.
I'm not sure what to do.
But a start would be to end the 'second shot' thru security. That might create incentive for people to prepare themselves prior to arriving at the checkpoint.
This one is a little tougher and would never happen, but in terms of terrorism, if anyone thinks the next strike is going to be someone who fit the profile of the 19 hijackers, they're kidding themselves. Terrorists look like me, they look like you and they're going to look like average Joes or even some mentally-challenged elderly person used to carry 'tools' thru. If Joe Bagadonuts gets pissed because he got extra screening, he needs to look at the larger picture.
But, of course, 90% of our country unfortunately thinks that if we send all of the Muslims to Venus, that terrorism would magically vanish which I blame popular media for. But I'll save that for another discussion. Heck, any Russian will tell you all about the blonde and blue ladies which bombed the airliner a few months ago.
If the average person already has their window down at the McDonalds drive-thru order marquee, has their money out at the first window and is pissed if it takes more than a moment or so at the second window to recieve their supersize #2, chances are that same logical flow can apply to preparing themselves for screening at the airport.
It's not a fashion show, it's an airport.
It's not CES, it's an airport.
Thick shoes can hide a good amount of C4, be prepared to take 'em off or wear alternate footwear.
You really don't need pocket change between the ticket counter and the gate, put it in your carry-on.
I could go on for at least six more pages, but it's late. And I need a refill on my agua.
But a start would be to end the 'second shot' thru security. That might create incentive for people to prepare themselves prior to arriving at the checkpoint.
This one is a little tougher and would never happen, but in terms of terrorism, if anyone thinks the next strike is going to be someone who fit the profile of the 19 hijackers, they're kidding themselves. Terrorists look like me, they look like you and they're going to look like average Joes or even some mentally-challenged elderly person used to carry 'tools' thru. If Joe Bagadonuts gets pissed because he got extra screening, he needs to look at the larger picture.
But, of course, 90% of our country unfortunately thinks that if we send all of the Muslims to Venus, that terrorism would magically vanish which I blame popular media for. But I'll save that for another discussion. Heck, any Russian will tell you all about the blonde and blue ladies which bombed the airliner a few months ago.
If the average person already has their window down at the McDonalds drive-thru order marquee, has their money out at the first window and is pissed if it takes more than a moment or so at the second window to recieve their supersize #2, chances are that same logical flow can apply to preparing themselves for screening at the airport.
It's not a fashion show, it's an airport.
It's not CES, it's an airport.
Thick shoes can hide a good amount of C4, be prepared to take 'em off or wear alternate footwear.
You really don't need pocket change between the ticket counter and the gate, put it in your carry-on.
I could go on for at least six more pages, but it's late. And I need a refill on my agua.
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
But, of course, 90% of our country unfortunately thinks that if we send all of the Muslims to Venus, that terrorism would magically vanish which I blame popular media for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it wouldn't magically vanish. It would vanish because they are all on Venus.
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Heck, any Russian will tell you all about the blonde and blue ladies which bombed the airliner a few months ago.
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Ah yes, the famous Chechen "Black Widows" who fit an exact profile of very active suicide bombers in that part of the world.
But, of course, 90% of our country unfortunately thinks that if we send all of the Muslims to Venus, that terrorism would magically vanish which I blame popular media for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it wouldn't magically vanish. It would vanish because they are all on Venus.
[ QUOTE ]
Heck, any Russian will tell you all about the blonde and blue ladies which bombed the airliner a few months ago.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah yes, the famous Chechen "Black Widows" who fit an exact profile of very active suicide bombers in that part of the world.
flyover
New Member
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They can't handle the stuff they have now, and they want to spend more money on a flawed system in the hopes that it will fix the problem? Sadly, this guy isn't even a Republican.
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Are you from a planet where the Democrats don't think the solution is always throwing more money at it?
They can't handle the stuff they have now, and they want to spend more money on a flawed system in the hopes that it will fix the problem? Sadly, this guy isn't even a Republican.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you from a planet where the Democrats don't think the solution is always throwing more money at it?
tonyw
Well-Known Member
It's time for us to end the charade of "security" at airports. Let's face it, it's just for the two times a year Aunt Bessies. You know, they're the jokers who, when the media does their once or twice a year trek to the airport to talk about the long lines during holidays, gets on TV and says, "well, it's an inconvenience, but if it makes us safer, I'm all for it."
What I want to know is why they never use my comment, which is something along the lines of "this is BS, anyone who thinks this is making us safer is an absolute moron." I've been asked twice what I think of the lines but it's never made it into the story. I wonder why.
Anyway, if we want security, we've got to end the charade. Should we do screening for metal? Absolutely, no reason for someone to get a knife or a gun on board. Should we stop the charade with our shoes? Definitely, because there is no way for them to detect plastic explosives with the x-ray machines.
What they ought to be doing, and it's all tied up in bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, is put in explosive detection systems, as well as metal detectors. They've got those at the CN Tower in Canada. Ain't no reason why it won't work here.
Other than the stupidity of the average American, of course.
What I want to know is why they never use my comment, which is something along the lines of "this is BS, anyone who thinks this is making us safer is an absolute moron." I've been asked twice what I think of the lines but it's never made it into the story. I wonder why.
Anyway, if we want security, we've got to end the charade. Should we do screening for metal? Absolutely, no reason for someone to get a knife or a gun on board. Should we stop the charade with our shoes? Definitely, because there is no way for them to detect plastic explosives with the x-ray machines.
What they ought to be doing, and it's all tied up in bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, is put in explosive detection systems, as well as metal detectors. They've got those at the CN Tower in Canada. Ain't no reason why it won't work here.
Other than the stupidity of the average American, of course.
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well, they threw together a larger bureaucracy without actually asking users of the system.
But the long lines aren't all the TSA's fault. At least 50% of the problem lies with some of the passengers. I see more people walk up with humongo belt buckets, cellphones in pockets, pocket change, you name it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Got that right, tired of people in front of me with all sorts of crap in their pocket. Will never forget that some dude out of the DFW airport was trying to bring a hammer & screwdriver on the flight with him.
Well, they threw together a larger bureaucracy without actually asking users of the system.
But the long lines aren't all the TSA's fault. At least 50% of the problem lies with some of the passengers. I see more people walk up with humongo belt buckets, cellphones in pockets, pocket change, you name it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Got that right, tired of people in front of me with all sorts of crap in their pocket. Will never forget that some dude out of the DFW airport was trying to bring a hammer & screwdriver on the flight with him.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
LOL, DFW wasn't too bad. Well, for me anyway. Right behind me, I heard this ghetto accent saying "why I gotta do dis" and I knew that everyone behind her was thinking, can we take her out back and shoot her.
There we go. If you are too stupid to get rid of all the metal before you go through the security lines, you are placed on a permanent no fly list.
I just solved the problem with the security lines right there.
There we go. If you are too stupid to get rid of all the metal before you go through the security lines, you are placed on a permanent no fly list.
I just solved the problem with the security lines right there.
flyover
New Member
Agree with pretty much everything you say. I'm sure you'd disagree with me if I added real intelligence, real profiling and real no-fly lists.
My first solution after 9/11, hard cockpits staffed with trained,armed pilots. Next place to concentrate is explosives, just as you said.
The last comment is the only one I disagree with. The average American isn't stupid. And the average airline customer isn't stupid. (Still not getting the whole disdain for the customer thing.) Politicians and bureaucrats on the other hand........
And BTW the "blonde and blue ladies" bombed two airlinerssimultaneously. It kind of reminds me of so many forgetting that the WTC was attacked twice by Islamic terrorists.
My first solution after 9/11, hard cockpits staffed with trained,armed pilots. Next place to concentrate is explosives, just as you said.
The last comment is the only one I disagree with. The average American isn't stupid. And the average airline customer isn't stupid. (Still not getting the whole disdain for the customer thing.) Politicians and bureaucrats on the other hand........
And BTW the "blonde and blue ladies" bombed two airlinerssimultaneously. It kind of reminds me of so many forgetting that the WTC was attacked twice by Islamic terrorists.
ramprat2035
New Member
Doug I agree with a lot you said about this subject. I have to ask you though what do you do in the case where a couple whose age averaged about 80 set off the detector and the genious asked them if they had a pace maker to which they said yes. He verbally told them how they should "talk to him". These folks were able bodied but just old. Thank godness they were not friends or parents of mine.
There are also customer service issues involved here that no one seems to care about.
On the other hand, I agree there is serious lack of training given to these people who appear just to be thrilled that they are government employees.
There are also customer service issues involved here that no one seems to care about.
On the other hand, I agree there is serious lack of training given to these people who appear just to be thrilled that they are government employees.
TheShortOne
Well-Known Member
Flying home today from MIA to DTW, I had to take of my sandals. Yes, my sandals. I was not thrilled about walking on some icky floor barefoot, because I figured (wrongly) that it would be obvious I couldn't hide explosives in flipflops. *sigh*
My other way to improve security is to standardize it (concept, i know). But I've taken two buisness trips in the past two weeks. In RDU I had to show my ID and boarding pass 4 times before I got through security. In DTW I had to show it once. In MIA i had to show it twice. My cell phone didn't set off the detector in DTW but it sure set it off in MIA (I was one of those second try people this morning).
And another thing why don't they just get a couple of cops with bomb sniffing dogs to hang out around the security line? That'd work pretty well without all the expensive equipment.
My other way to improve security is to standardize it (concept, i know). But I've taken two buisness trips in the past two weeks. In RDU I had to show my ID and boarding pass 4 times before I got through security. In DTW I had to show it once. In MIA i had to show it twice. My cell phone didn't set off the detector in DTW but it sure set it off in MIA (I was one of those second try people this morning).
And another thing why don't they just get a couple of cops with bomb sniffing dogs to hang out around the security line? That'd work pretty well without all the expensive equipment.
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I had to take of my sandals. Yes, my sandals.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get the shoes either. I was under the impression that it is "not a requirement" but would help to make the lines go faster. Something about metal in the shoes. I know Doug has mentioned his Dr. Martens along that line. Last time through Philly I did not take my shoes (Dr. Martens)off and went through just fine. Now had I set the ringer off, they would have went right for the shoes. I guess it's just one less thing for them to "have" to check.
I wonder if all this $$$$ has done nothing to help, where has it gone/what has been done with it.
I had to take of my sandals. Yes, my sandals.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't get the shoes either. I was under the impression that it is "not a requirement" but would help to make the lines go faster. Something about metal in the shoes. I know Doug has mentioned his Dr. Martens along that line. Last time through Philly I did not take my shoes (Dr. Martens)off and went through just fine. Now had I set the ringer off, they would have went right for the shoes. I guess it's just one less thing for them to "have" to check.
I wonder if all this $$$$ has done nothing to help, where has it gone/what has been done with it.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
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How could we possibly have customer service issues in this industry? The employees love and respect the customers so much!
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Flyover, the average American thinks we've found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The average American thinks Saddam Hussein was linked to September 11. The average American carries about $10K in credit card debt on an income of about $22K. These are not intelligent things.
The average American does really stupid things. And always has. How long ago was it when H.L. Mencken said nobody goes broke underestimating the stupidty of the American public?
Every day, I see things that make me more and more sure that we will see Planet of the Apes.
By the way, I do agree with you on profiling. Real profiling, not just, hey, let's screen all the Arabs. That's easily defeated profiling. There are Pakistanis (who aren't even Arab, by the way) who have light skin and green eyes. And don't forget, we stopped ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Kosovo.
How could we possibly have customer service issues in this industry? The employees love and respect the customers so much!
[/ QUOTE ]
Flyover, the average American thinks we've found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The average American thinks Saddam Hussein was linked to September 11. The average American carries about $10K in credit card debt on an income of about $22K. These are not intelligent things.
The average American does really stupid things. And always has. How long ago was it when H.L. Mencken said nobody goes broke underestimating the stupidty of the American public?
Every day, I see things that make me more and more sure that we will see Planet of the Apes.
By the way, I do agree with you on profiling. Real profiling, not just, hey, let's screen all the Arabs. That's easily defeated profiling. There are Pakistanis (who aren't even Arab, by the way) who have light skin and green eyes. And don't forget, we stopped ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Kosovo.