Training contracts

[JeppUpdater]

I signed a one year, $3500 training contract at a previous employer of mine. I had an opportunity fall in my lap shortly thereafter that I thought was a great gig. I went in, met my boss, gave him my resignation and a check for $3500. He said it meant a lot, that most guys just punched out.

Two weeks later I was sitting in ground school, realized what a mistake I made (how crappy the new company actually was, despite their equipment), and called my old boss. He immediately gave me my job back AND they wrote me a check back for the $3500.

A few months later I was a company instructor and later a Check Airman.

Not screwing over that company was the best thing I ever did career-wise.

 

[z987k]

Just don't sign one. If they ask for one that means something is wrong or they wouldn't need it.

 

[RA390]

Just don't sign one. If they ask for one that means something is wrong or they wouldn't need it.

Couldn't agree with this more. Having done the opposite in the past, I learned the lesson the hard way. Not worth getting trapped into employment at a bad operation.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Just don't sign one. If they ask for one that means something is wrong or they wouldn't need it.

Unfortunately its sort of becoming industry standard. And to be fair, a company is giving you an opportunity and spending a boatload of money to train you. I signed on to my company on a 1 yr contract and IMO, unless something pops up where I can't physically complete that year, I believe I'm morally obligated to do so. Note: "Something pops up" doesn't mean a new job opportunity unless that opportunity is very, very significantly better than here.

Not trying to be a company man, but life is a two way street.

 

[knot4u]

Couldn't agree with this more. Having done the opposite in the past, I learned the lesson the hard way. Not worth getting trapped into employment at a bad operation.

I can't argue. But I also see the employers side. I guess I was talking about a contract with a company that you're already an employee. I wouldn't sign a contract as part of a new job.

 

[z987k]

Unfortunately its sort of becoming industry standard. And to be fair, a company is giving you an opportunity and spending a boatload of money to train you. I signed on to my company on a 1 yr contract and IMO, unless something pops up where I can't physically complete that year, I believe I'm morally obligated to do so. Note: "Something pops up" doesn't mean a new job opportunity unless that opportunity is very, very significantly better than here.

Not trying to be a company man, but life is a two way street.

Training new employees is the cost of doing business. If they need a training contract to keep their employees, there is something wrong causing employees to leave quickly. I won't sign them for any reason, and it is not the norm.
If they want to guarantee my income for almost any reason over the course of the contract, then we can talk. Contracts are a two way street, and an employer training me, gives me nothing. Yet I owe them something? No way.

Something like a 2 year 100k per year deal, where if I leave then I owe them something as part of the contract and if they lost the airplane after one year, they still owe me the 100k for the next year, that's fine.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Training new employees is the cost of doing business. If they need a training contract to keep their employees, there is something wrong causing employees to leave quickly. I won't sign them for any reason, and it is not the norm.
If they want to guarantee my income for almost any reason over the course of the contract, then we can talk. Contracts are a two way street, and an employer training me, gives me nothing. Yet I owe them something? No way.

Something like a 2 year 100k per year deal, where if I leave then I owe them something as part of the contract and if they lost the airplane after one year, they still owe me the 100k for the next year, that's fine.

The way I look at it, is that to me it is a guarantee of work over the course of the contract (implicitly). Now, if they for whatever reason decide my services are no longer necessary and then still try to go after me for the contract, then we'd have issues. Serious issues. But the way the industry is progressing, to take the attitude of not signing a contract, period, I think you'll find work harder and harder to come by. It is unfortunate, but I had the same attitude until this job came along, in which the pasture appeared much greener than my previous employer and so far, contract or no, I have yet to be disappointed. On my end, I don't want to burn a bridge just because a marginally better job pops up. But where I'm at right now, I don't know much of what could pop up that could be better.

 

[z987k]

The way I look at it, is that to me it is a guarantee of work over the course of the contract (implicitly). Now, if they for whatever reason decide my services are no longer necessary and then still try to go after me for the contract, then we'd have issues. Serious issues.

No, I mean they must guarantee my income regardless of their situation, for me to sign a contract. You know, a REAL professional contract in which both parties gain something from the arrangement. Their training does nothing at all for me. It's their cost of doing business. Not my problem.

But the way the industry is progressing, to take the attitude of not signing a contract, period, I think you'll find work harder and harder to come by. It is unfortunate, but I had the same attitude until this job came along, in which the pasture appeared much greener than my previous employer and so far, contract or no, I have yet to be disappointed. On my end, I don't want to burn a bridge just because a marginally better job pops up. But where I'm at right now, I don't know much of what could pop up that could be better.

That's fine. I don't want to work for a company with a contract anyways. It implicitly means something is wrong. And actually, in this market, a flying job is incredibly easy to come by. It's just hard to find a good one.

 

[mshunter]

The way I look at it, is that to me it is a guarantee of work over the course of the contract (implicitly). Now, if they for whatever reason decide my services are no longer necessary and then still try to go after me for the contract, then we'd have issues. Serious issues. But the way the industry is progressing, to take the attitude of not signing a contract, period, I think you'll find work harder and harder to come by. It is unfortunate, but I had the same attitude until this job came along, in which the pasture appeared much greener than my previous employer and so far, contract or no, I have yet to be disappointed. On my end, I don't want to burn a bridge just because a marginally better job pops up. But where I'm at right now, I don't know much of what could pop up that could be better.

People are "gone after" for training contracts where airplanes were sold, or they were let go all the time. And let go could be anything from screwing up, to being laid off.

Training contracts are nothing but a crutch for companies either having poor QOL, being cheap, or just plain 'ol not running a business right. Run your business well, treat your employees right, and they will do the same. Crap on them, pay them crap wages, and expect the same in return.

 

[jhugz]

Training contracts are nothing but a crutch for companies either having poor QOL, being cheap, or just plain 'ol not running a business right.

Or for people that take a LOA after a couple days on the line and then quit.

*all in good fun*

 

[gotWXdagain]

People are "gone after" for training contracts where airplanes were sold, or they were let go all the time. And let go could be anything from screwing up, to being laid off.

See that sort of practice absolutely shouldn't be happening, and I could easily see a court tossing that contract out the door.

 

[Jet]

I broke one before but was furloughed and never came back. There was no furlough clause in the contract and I was technically liable but I called the VP of ops and he said not to worry about it and I didn't have to pay.

Great Lakes was the first airline I've heard of to take one of these to court and they did win.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

I see them as a protection of interest. I've used them in the past for employees and the first one that signed one joked after when he resigned that it wouldn't go to court. He was wrong. Best part since it was done per class the company did them individually in small claims court. Don't remember now but it was 12 or 14 different cases. Since he moved away he had to come back to town for each one and they were all not done at the same time. What should be done is for you to fully understand what you are signing. Get it to a lawyer yourself for review.

And I treated my employees extremely well.

 

[mshunter]

Or for people that take a LOA after a couple days on the line and then quit.

*all in good fun*

Yeah man. You know how I feel about all that. Good company to work for, training contract because of where you had to live. But I would have stayed there a while had someone not shot a nuke into that ship.

 

[skypilot6]

My company now has training contracts as well, after a string of people leaving in a short period of time. Its the cost of doing business, Im not a huge fan of them either, but I understand their need. Ours is going to keep me around when I upgrade to the other jets we have, 25 k contacts leave in the first year its the full rate, second year is pro rated monthly. Its not a bad place to work, but def not a career job. For me it will be my "2 year notice" most likely once I'm in contract.

 

[dustoff17]

Training contracts are a sign that a company can't manage their people or money. Training is the cost of business because you can walk in the door type rated and fully trained in the their type of operation and they will have to train you to their SOP anyway. Their problem, their cost.

IMHO, contracts are a manner of indentured servitude; you have to work for me in order to earn money so you can pay me back for giving you an opportunity to work for me....what?

That having been stated, while I don't agree with these contracts, I feel you should honor it if you sign it. You're only as good as your word.

Unfortunately its sort of becoming industry standard. And to be fair, a company is giving you an opportunity and spending a boatload of money to train you. I signed on to my company on a 1 yr contract and IMO, unless something pops up where I can't physically complete that year, I believe I'm morally obligated to do so. Note: "Something pops up" doesn't mean a new job opportunity unless that opportunity is very, very significantly better than here.

Not trying to be a company man, but life is a two way street.

This confuses me; if I'm reading this correctly, you feel morally obligated....UNLESS you can get more money/better benefits elsewhere.

 

[Ajax]

I'll never sin a training contract, if they want me to do the job it isn't my cost to work for them.

The las time I had an opportunity, I read the contract and said thanks but no thanks. Quietly, I laughed about the verbiage inside the contract too.

 

[gomntwins]

A few years back I struck up a conversation with a corporate pilot at the local FBO. I asked him how he got his job. He told me that the job required a type, he didn't have one, so he took a job with a company that didn't have any contract. He was laughing as he was telling me how he put in his 2 week notice as soon as the paperwork had been signed on his new type cert. "That's how you get a free type in aviation!" was what he told me. I asked him if the first job was that bad, he said nah, he just didn't want to move to where the job was located.

I started understanding better why some companies require contracts. I agree there are plenty of companies that use contracts to bind a person to a poor job. I also know there are more than a few pilots out there who abuse companies and have made it difficult for them to operate without one.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I signed a training contract at my current employer. They're a good company and the job is, for the most part, exactly what I was told it was, going into it. The training contract I signed is totally fair and bilateral, so I signed it. Nothing wrong with signing something that is fair for both parties. I would never sign a non-compete as a pilot, that is completely unfair.

 

[wheelsup]

Training new employees is the cost of doing business. If they need a training contract to keep their employees, there is something wrong causing employees to leave quickly. I won't sign them for any reason, and it is not the norm.
If they want to guarantee my income for almost any reason over the course of the contract, then we can talk. Contracts are a two way street, and an employer training me, gives me nothing. Yet I owe them something? No way.

Something like a 2 year 100k per year deal, where if I leave then I owe them something as part of the contract and if they lost the airplane after one year, they still owe me the 100k for the next year, that's fine.

An excellent way to look at it. I agree 100%.