Training contracts

Retired in SAN

Retired in SAN

Time to return to the saddle..
How binding are they? Anyone ever break one? Just stirring it a bit.. Hard to believe that everyone here who has completed training has fulfilled the time requirements.
 
This is going to become a fun thread.......

The short answer is that in most states, and in most case law, they've been proven to be unenforceable. However, what you have to ask yourself is how hard (read: how much $$$ you're willing to spend) you want to fight whatever you supposedly owe them.

From my point of view, anything $5k and under (and in the legal world, this isn't too far removed from $10k), be nice and try to negotiate something lower, or just pay it.

Get up to around $10k, and it may be worth litigating (especially if the situation surrounding the fact that you're being asked to repay a contract isn't simple). In many states the small claims limit is $7500-$10k, so if you can do this there, it's absolutely worth your time.

Now, if you get slapped with a $25k lawsuit over a training contract, it's likely very prudent to retain an attorney and go fight away.

Just realize that once you get into the legal world, legal fees add up QUICKLY. A few hours here and a few hours there writing motions, answering motions, making phone calls, court appearances, etc and you can find yourself with a $10k legal bill a lot faster than most people realize.
 
Training contracts in most states are not legal/enforceable. Most companies know it and don't bother going after you in court. What they do do is put it on your credit report. And that becomes a HUGE mess to deal with. At that point, you don't really have to drag it into court. You have to show the collection agency the laws for the state it was signed in, and a decent one will remove it from your credit report. If they don't, then it becomes a huge mess that takes an attorney to sort through. I worked with a guy last year who had to deal with on from a cargo operator who fly's white and blue airplanes. They destroyed his credit, and his PRIA paperwork was a mess because of it. It took him two years to straighten it out. The work around some companies have come up with is they "pay" for your training by having you get a loan for it, and they make the payments for you over the first year.
 
I wouldn't break them personally. Ameriflight, for example, won't necessarily go after you(I haven't heard of it at least), but you WILL get *not re- hireable* in your PRIA(if that's even something that shows up), and/or if a potential employer calls about you.

Some companies frown on this, regardless of the reasoning. So it's not worth breaking in most circumstances IMO. Not for most jobs at least. I'd probably bounce out the very next day if the dream job called me up, but not for much else. That'd be a pretty hard moral dilemma for me though.
 
There is a member on here that just left a company roughly halfway through his contract. The company likely won't do anything because it would cost them more to fight it than any monetary gain they would receive. Plus, they don't have any money to spend anyways. (this is why he left)
 
UAL747400 said:
I wouldn't break them personally. Ameriflight, for example, won't necessarily go after you(I haven't heard of it at least), but you WILL get *not re- hireable* in your PRIA(if that's even something that shows up), and/or if a potential employer calls about you.
Click to expand...
I don't think it should, IIRC PRIA just shows training failures.
 
Pilots make lousy lawyers. (Pilots who have gone to law school and are qualified are excluded.)

Have a lawyer review the contract before you sign it. If that's no longer an option, certainly have a review it before you take action to put it in effect.

Not all contracts are equal; local and state laws are not all the same; most importantly it can cost a lot of money depending on how vigorously the contract is pursued.

Do not use anecdotal evidence of "enforceability" as a catalyst for a many thousand dollar decision.

I signed a very unfavorable contract based on the promise and handshake of the employer that we'd work out a fair arrangement if I left. Six months later, I had a job offer for triple my pitiful salary. His handshake and promise didn't matter, only what was written and signed. He had the means (and probably desire) to spend plenty on his lawyer. After a year of living lean, and with significant reductions to my bank account, that chapter is blissfully behind me.

This was one experience, all are not the same. I just can't stand people dishing out the myth that these are never enforceable, because it's simply not true.

Good luck.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
 
I am pretty sure they can put non re hirable now. Had some situations where I am that this happened.

One story I have on breaking contracts. Captain left early to move back home for a better job. Left on a good net besides they wanted their money back based on the contract. Basically tells them their is now way for her to pay it back. Agrees on the amount of 20 bucks a month.
 
The problem isn't so much a training contract, its the associated promissory note you sign with it, in some cases, that is going to be hard to deal with, as I'm finding out.
 
U_of_I_Tweak said:
Pilots make lousy lawyers. (Pilots who have gone to law school and are qualified are excluded.)

Have a lawyer review the contract before you sign it. If that's no longer an option, certainly have a review it before you take action to put it in effect.

Not all contracts are equal; local and state laws are not all the same; most importantly it can cost a lot of money depending on how vigorously the contract is pursued.

Do not use anecdotal evidence of "enforceability" as a catalyst for a many thousand dollar decision.

I signed a very unfavorable contract based on the promise and handshake of the employer that we'd work out a fair arrangement if I left. Six months later, I had a job offer for triple my pitiful salary. His handshake and promise didn't matter, only what was written and signed. He had the means (and probably desire) to spend plenty on his lawyer. After a year of living lean, and with significant reductions to my bank account, that chapter is blissfully behind me.

This was one experience, all are not the same. I just can't stand people dishing out the myth that these are never enforceable, because it's simply not true.

Good luck.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
Click to expand...

There is plenty of cases in CA that show otherwise. Enforceable AMD the company wanting to go after you to make your life miserable are two different things.

You also need to ask yourself this question. Why is the company asking you to sign the contract? Do they have a problem with employee retention?
 
Don't sign a contract of any kind with a company you don't see yourself staying with through the duration of said contract. Training is expensive, even on the MX side, I signed a pro-rated contract for G200 school a few years back. The cost was $24,000 not including expenses. I fulfilled the two year contract and was sent to more schools that the company didn't have to pay for because the airplanes came with pilot/maintenance training slots provided by the manufacturer as part of the purchase. I missed out on a G550 class because of politics and that slot was never filled, imagine my frustration.
 
My understanding has always been, while they all aren't enforceable they can make you not eligible for rehire which could come back to bite you with a future potential employer.
 
I've see it go both ways in OH but not aviation. Depends how they are written. Same goes for non-compete. Even in 2008-2009 I saw one of those put a man out of engineering in the area and force him into something else (landscaping).
 
All your responses are appreciated but to bring this train back on track, not really interested in advice whether one should sign a contract and break it or not. But more from those that have signed contacts, perhaps, even who it was signed with and the repercussions you experienced in neglecting it. I know you're out there :)
 
My employer doesn't do training contracts... just a legal and binding "loan" that is witnessed by a notary. If you leave and pay off the remainder of your loan the company is not upset (realizing it is just business) and moves on. In my opinion it is a money making scheme where if operators treated their people in a decent manner people wouldn't leave as quickly thus negating the need for training contracts and the like. That being said my company will take you to court if you refuse to pay and they haven't lost a case yet. I haven't broken a contract yet but if I were to I would pay off the balance of what I "owed" to the company because I did sign a document acknowledging that I would either fulfill the contract or repay the balance. In my opinion, doing so isn't really breaking a contract because the person would have fulfilled one of the two criteria set forth by the contract.... but that is just my opinion and others are welcome to correct me.
That being said... contract or no contract... a lot of places are going to start feeling the staffing crunch if they fail to treat their employees fairly. Placing the burden on your remain employees only exacerbates the situation to point where a company will have to start parking airframes due to a lack of pilots.
Sorry for the long winded and unorganized collection of thoughts but that is my take on the situation... hope it helps.
 
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